Flake against Trump

dudalb said:
Or maybe a third centrist party.

I don't want a totally dominant party, whether it be the GOP or the Dems.
And ,yes, I the Dems in a postion of total power would become as arrogant and an authoritarian as the GOP. Power corrupts.period. The only way to control is it to see that no party has a monopoly of power.
Irony is if all moderate Republicans were to switch to the Dems, it would move the party to the right...not want I think you guys want.
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Maybe the GOP would come towards the centre to get them back
 
The Don said:
That would be a long political essay but IMO the US major parties are right and far right
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Which seems to be fairly accurate. But a lot also has to do with perception.
many of the posters here who identify as 'conservative', would view the two parties as 'Right Wing' and 'Far extreme left world destroying communism'.

The reverse would somewhat be true, though hard to quantify as we have very few hard right wingers, and a large collection of liberals who range from moderates, all the way to socialists.
 
Shalamar said:
Which seems to be fairly accurate. But a lot also has to do with perception.
many of the posters here who identify as 'conservative', would view the two parties as 'Right Wing' and 'Far extreme left world destroying communism'.

The reverse would somewhat be true, though hard to quantify as we have very few hard right wingers, and a large collection of liberals who range from moderates, all the way to socialists.
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True.

There's that two-dimensional (and thus grossly oversimplified) political quiz/spectrum diagram which puts one somewhere on the left/right (economically) and liberal/controlling axes. The US Presidents and political party leaders are all clustered in the upper right quadrant (right wing and controlling) - as were the UK leaders to a slightly lesser extent (but I haven't seen it since the rise of Corbyn).

I'll see if I can find it.

edited to add....

Here it is: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
 
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Oystein said:
Watching this train wreck from Europe, it is extremely difficult to realize that this base not only exists but even dominates.

What is wrong with the American People?? Why aren't ALL Democratic candidates across the board already polling comfortably north of 70%? Why is anybody other than two or three billionaire families supporting even a single Breitbart/Bannon slimeball candidate?
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The short answer is that the US is transitioning to a minority majority country and a certain segment if the white population is scared.
 
Craig4 said:
The short answer is that the US is transitioning to a minority majority country and a certain segment if the white population is scared.
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I.o.w., racism is the underlying problem?
 
Craig4 said:
The short answer is that the US is transitioning to a minority majority country and a certain segment if the white population is scared.
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...because they know how bad it can be to be a minority.

Ironic, isn't it?
 
dudalb said:
What people here are saying is you need to be on the Political Left to be opposed to Trump, I totally reject that.
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I agree with that as stated. If you are the (now rare) actual Republican I have no problem with you. Again, I refer to the basic Republican party of the 50's and some after except for Tricky Dick). It's the ones who are heavily xtian attached and against helping those who need help and against real education that are the current mass of republickers I do not like (being nice here)!!!
 
And sometimes even I forget why I started referring to the republicker party. It was within six months after one of the advisors to the r.p. suggested and was followed in it by the r.p. calling us the Democrat Party (never our name), We were always (once we took the name) The Democratic Party/Democrats and the games playing with our name suggested rebranding the rp to what it had become (the cker expressing a suggestion of right wing naziism which was some appropriate by the time).
 
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Oystein said:
Why aren't ALL Democratic candidates across the board already polling comfortably north of 70%?
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Because of what you haven't been paying attention to: the problems with the Democrats... one of which is demonstrated by the mindless "racist racism racist racism" mantra you just saw a few examples of in some of the last few posts. People tend to reject those who keep throwing false accusations at us and identify with others who are also targets of the same false accusations against them. But that's not all; in addition to the wildly dishonest insanity of the SJW accusation movement, Democrats also show just as much corruption and dedication to big donors as Republicans do, and tend to talk from the left but govern from the right, which gives their own party members in the general population nothing to vote for. So they're suffering from backlashes against their own behavior from both sides.

Never forget that Trump was the least popular Presidential candidate ever and is the least popular President ever. He just lucked into a competition against #2 in a system where #2 could "win".
 
dudalb said:
This is not Europe, Don.
America is much more Free Marketed oriented then Europe. I do not see this changing.
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This isn’t accurate. The vast majority of Europe is firmly free market. The US is much more tolerant of market inefficiencies as long as these are not created by government actions. European nations are much more willing to use regulation to make a market more efficient but also to sacrifice some efficiency for equitability. Nonetheless the basic systems are still fully free market based, and because they are willing to deal with non-government factors that make markets less free they can be more competitive and efficient overall.
 
dudalb said:
I got a feeling ,Don, you would feel the way about ANY Republican in the White House that your feel about Trump.
That is really sad, it makes you no better then the hard line RIght Wingers you hate so much.
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There are too many contradictory elements in Republican ideology to reconcile in a way that makes for sound policy. This makes it almost impossible for them to field a presidential candidate that would actually be competent.
 
dudalb said:
I got a feeling ,Don, you would feel the way about ANY Republican in the White House that your feel about Trump.
That is really sad, it makes you no better then the hard line RIght Wingers you hate so much.
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Absolutely not.

More specifically there are GOP Presidents whose policies I disagree with - there is almost nothing about the modern day GOP I can agree with - but who I could accept as a decent GOP President. George H W Bush fit into that mould. Heck, even George W Bush at least seemed to have a respect for the office of the President.
 
Oystein said:
I.o.w., racism is the underlying problem?
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Partly though a big part. There's also the fact that our economy is changing. There are just some classes of jobs that either no longer exist or are dying out. If you're in one of those jobs, it's comforting to hear from a president that he's going to roll back the clock. He can't of course but until people figure that out, they'll put up with the tweets, boorish behavior and general unhinged stupidity in the hopes that they'll get to go back to mining coal.
 
pgwenthold said:
Well, they figure that if they are the minority, then they will be treated like other minorities have been treated historically, and that worries them.
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As far as I can see, the group you're referring to aren't "figuring" anything - they've simply been listening to the likes of Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and Rush Limbaugh (and more recently, white supremacist sites like Breitbart and World Net Daily), and terrifying themselves about the horrible violent blacks and the evil MS-13 Hispanics. These are the sort of people who will insist that darker-skinned people are all taking "their" tax money for welfare because they're too lazy to get jobs - and then spin around and insist that darker-skinned people are stealing "their" jobs through Affirmative Action (which...AA doesn't even work that way), the sort of person that will insist that the US isn't racist because "Asians do great", and not even consider how groups like Vietnamese and Laotians are doing (hint: not well), much less what effect our immigration policies have on distorting education levels, and the simple fact that Chinese and Black American are, you know, not the same race, and thus that racism would naturally treat the two groups differently*.

Add that to the folks who just vote GOP regardless, and the folks who bought into Trump's con game, and...there you go.

*Sometimes, it takes typing it all out to see just how absurd a concept the US' vision of "race" is - and yet, it's still a powerful sociopolitical idea...

ETA: it's also worth pointing out that, again, this can vary by location. I know in Maryland, our republican governor refused to attend last year's GOP convention due to Toupee Fiasco's nomination.
 
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Shalamar said:
many of the posters here who identify as 'conservative', would view the two parties as 'Right Wing' and 'Far extreme left world destroying communism'.
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Somewhat related, but a couple months ago I read an article that referred to the "extreme left". It wasn't partisan bias, either, although the group referred to was more like anarchists than anything.

A comment about that article said (paraphrased), "Good. There's largely been no equivalent 'extreme' on the left to balance the 'extreme' we see on the right." The obvious result being that your run-of-mill liberalism and progressiveness has been the "extreme left" for a very long time.

So, within the U.S., at least, our political spectrum has tended to look something like this:

Code: 
   |--------|------------------------------|
Extreme   Center                        Extreme
Left                                      Right
 
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