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Split Thread Flabio's dowsing claim

flabio said:
So, in short... Is this the point where I should fill out the application to take the challenge?
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If you have any sense at all, this is the point where you do a double blind self test of the kind you'd need to do in the challenge to make sure you haven't been inadvertantly fooling yourself. See DowserDon's thread "Challenge applications" in this subforum for details.

flabio said:
I honestly thought there would have long since been a scientific explanation on how dowsing works by now.
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There is. It's called the ideomotor effect. The ideomotor effect is not considered paranormal, so it is carefully excluded in the kind of double blind test that a claimant is required to take to win the MDC.

flabio said:
Thanks, but I'm guessing most of the aforementioned challenges require that one locates an underground water source
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You guess wrong. Any kind of dowsing qualifies.
 
I think he's got all the info he needs to become a millionaire if he can really dowse. If he doesn't go for it, I think we can assume that he realizes that "Really, there's nothing to it."

Ward
 
flabio said:
Do keep in mind all I have ever dowsed is service lines. I find it hard to believe such a simple task would be classified as paranormal. I honestly thought there would have long since been a scientific explanation on how dowsing works by now.
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It's classified as paranormal because it contradicts the laws of physics as we know them, and there is no evidence it's actually possible at all.

Really, there's nothing to it.
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Then it should be very easy to prove it's possible. If you can do so, you would be the first person to ever provide the slightest shred of evidence.
 
flabio said:
I work in construction and can dowse gas lines, power lines, and telecommunication lines with 100% accuracy 100% of the time.
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How do you know? How can you be sure you've not missed some?!

flabio said:
Anyone can. I don't do the work, the rods do. It takes no special talent what so ever. Sounds like some real easy money to be made here to me...
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So why hasn't anybody made any from it then?!
 
The IIG just finished testing a dowser. There was another one in England this last weekend. The protocol is decided by both parties. You simply design a test that shows what you can do and that is blinded. It could be lines under dirt, or something else hidden. You can do boxes or whatever works for you.

You really need to test yourself first, it is expensive for you to travel to the location to be tested (all expenses are your own). The effect mentioned above is an odd one. When you know the correct answer when you are dowsing, then most of the time the rods will cross, you don't feel yourself doing it, but you are doing it.

Also we have discovered that when you have someone hide whatever it is you are looking for, they can not be in the area while you are dowsing. They also give away clues, even if they try really hard not to, you can pick up those clues and usually find the object.

Humans are very interesting, we don't realize we are doing this. If you can dowse correctly under these conditions then apply for one of the challenges, you won't be working much longer. You will be a very rich man. No one has passed a controlled challenge before, which makes you wonder why.

If you are near LA, San Francisco, Atlanta, Washington DC, Alberta Canada or Denver then you should write to the IIG.
 
flabio said:
This I will openly admit...

I had been lurking here for some time and just could no longer sit back and witness Rob Menard get maliciously dog piled by all of his detractors on JREF.

You'll have to excuse me if I later became interested in other things that are happening here on the RANDI board. It's just when I checked the new posts and dowsing was the topic I couldn't resist the urge to interject. In all reality I myself have dowsed hundreds of lines in my life. I cannot differentiate between gas, power, or telecommunication lines. The rods just cross when you pass over a line of pretty much any sort. Like I mentioned before, dowsing involves no talent what so ever, and in my years of construction I have witnessed dozens others dowse or as they say in the industry, witch.

And yes, It would be my pleasure to demonstrate to JREF exactly just how simple dowsing actually is. And honestly, I'd kind of feel bad about taking the money.

So, in short... Is this the point where I should fill out the application to take the challenge? If so, I'm totally up for it.
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Fair enough. I may have based a large part of my interpretation on the way you made your arguments, which led me to conclude there was nothing to your dowsing claim. I assumed that when you made your first post you knew there was no evidence from controlled tests that dowsing exists.

Your claim seems easily testable. You said "The rods just cross when you pass over a line of pretty much any sort." I would propose a very simple self-test first: Power lines:

You need: Two wall outlets, two extension cords, two silent end devices (PC, notebook, amplifier, etc.), one room, one person to assist.

1. Run the extension cords through the testing room.

2. Plug them each in a socket outside of the room (left), connect the end devices to the cords in another room (right).

3. Have your friend turn on one of the end devices, without telling you which.

You should get a result either way. Note the results carefully. Continue the test.

4. Have your friend unplug one extension cord from the wall socket without telling you which.

5. Run the test again a couple of times. Note results.

Would that work for you?
 
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flabio said:
I ... can dowse gas lines, power lines, and telecommunication lines with 100% accuracy 100% of the time.
Posted By: Cuddles
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No, you can't. I'll leave it to everyone else to set up a double-blinded protocol for a test which you could agree to because it's easy, but subsequently fail and and ignore, still thinking you can dowse.
Posted By: Cuddles
 
William Smith,

Your suggestion is a good starting point, but as of now we don't know if the power line needs to be active in order for Flabio to find it. Gas, power and telecom lines at construction sites are often not yet connected. If he can tell the difference between an active power line and an inactive one, then your protocol should work great.

We don't know if that's the case. We don't really know if he's even serious about this claim. I still sense that he's just joking around.

Ward
 
flabio said:
Neat, my very own thread. Thanks guys!!!



Do you think I'd have gone through the trouble of making this YT video today if I were merely joking around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhSDeKkdK0o&feature=youtu.be
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Yes, i do.

If not just because you attempt to try and convince us someone wouldn't create a youtube video for the lulz. No one who is legitimate says " Hey, if i wasn't serious would i do this thing that would take an hour from my life max?" they let their actions speak for themselves, and in your case, actually knowing how your power works, and how one would test it would do that. Funny that we see none of that kind of action though.
 
I wanted everyone to know there was a gas line in that location. Anyone can just walk out into any old field and make like they found something.

The vid is just the second of a baby step towards being considered for the challenge, and to let the JREF membership know that I'm not just fooling around or trolling. I'm off to work now and won't be home until early morning so I'll catch up with you all tomorrow. Have fun...
 
While putting up a youtube video is fun, it offers no real new information. Everyone here knows what dowsing is. We don't need you to show us. You know what challenges are out there that you qualify for. Just go for it. You've got all the info you need. No need for baby steps.

Also, why have you taken down so many of your other youtube videos?

Ward
 
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The fun part/problem with what you posted in that video is that you showed exactly how dowsing works.

You already know there's a thing you're looking for, so you make the rods move.
 
Flabio seems to have the amazing ability to pull flags out of the ground and point sticks at where the flags used to be. I have to admit that I have never seen anybody do this successfully on a Youtube video!
 
flabio said:
This I will openly admit...

I had been lurking here for some time and just could no longer sit back and witness Rob Menard get maliciously dog piled by all of his detractors on JREF.

You'll have to excuse me if I later became interested in other things that are happening here on the RANDI board. It's just when I checked the new posts and dowsing was the topic I couldn't resist the urge to interject. In all reality I myself have dowsed hundreds of lines in my life. I cannot differentiate between gas, power, or telecommunication lines. The rods just cross when you pass over a line of pretty much any sort. Like I mentioned before, dowsing involves no talent what so ever, and in my years of construction I have witnessed dozens others dowse or as they say in the industry, witch.

And yes, It would be my pleasure to demonstrate to JREF exactly just how simple dowsing actually is. And honestly, I'd kind of feel bad about taking the money.

So, in short... Is this the point where I should fill out the application to take the challenge? If so, I'm totally up for it.
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Well, come on down!:D
 
Also how can he verify that there are gas lines where he "doused" them? Sorry I think the youtube is a waste. You need to do some testing like what is in this video. If you can pass that test then you can start asking how to do some formal testing as per wardenclyffe's post.
James Randi in Australia

It does not matter what you can douse for, it is up to you to design the test so that you can pass it. Then you submit that to the group and then they say yes, no, otherwise.
 
flavio said:
I work in construction and can dowse gas lines, power lines, and telecommunication lines with 100% accuracy 100% of the time.
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I'm not sure why nobody has asked these questions directly yet (maybe everybody assumes flavio is a troll and I'm just naive), in any case there I go:

Gas lines: which diameter? which material? does the line need to be filled with gas? which gas? does the gas need to be flowing? which flow rate?

Power lines: how many wires? which diameter? any differences with materials? any particularities about insulation? does it need to have voltage? how many volts? AC or DC? does any device need to be connected? what kind of device? how much power?

Telecommunication lines: what kind of line? coaxial, twisted pair, optic fiber? does it need to be carrying a signal? what kind of signal? does it need some transmitting and/or receiving device connected? what kind of device/s?

For any kind of line: any restrictions on minimum/maximum length? is it ok to have just a 1-meter piece of wire in the middle of a field or does it need to be a long piece actually connected to some service? is it ok to do the test in a room, covering a very short target with some kind of false floor a few centimeters above the "real" floor, or does it need to be in an open field, covering the target with dirt?
 
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