First-grader suspended for turning in toy gun at school

[ravdin]

Yet another example of zero tolerance idiocy directed at small children:

Jennifer Mathabel told Pittsburgh’s Action News 4 reporter Marcie Cipriani that her son left his usual backpack in a friend’s car the night before, so he packed another one but missed the toy gun inside.

“So I send my child to school, my child discovers a fake toy gun at about 1:30 p.m. He turns it in to the teacher and he's sent to the office and suspended,” said Mathabel.

Lesson for the day, kid: never bring yourself to the attention of the authorities as anything you say can and will be used against you.

http://www.wtae.com/news/firstgrader-suspended-after-toy-gun-found-in-backpack/26350640#!VxFEs

 

[Checkmite]

Yeah, that's pretty dumb.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Life lesson: never go to authorities unless you absolutely have to. Also never volunteer information, never talk to cops, and never ever ever ever ever ever appeal to the human resources department of your employer. Those people don't work for you, they can only work against you. Best to remain neglected and ignored, it's better than drawing inimical attention.

 

[IDB87]

How many backpacks does a first grader need? Why is he storing weapons in one of them? Was that his bug-out bag?

 

[TimCallahan]

I started a thread back some time ago titled, "Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance." This sounds like more of the same crap as high school honor students suspended for having Midol in their purses during the time they were having their periods, or the case where a girl turned in a butter knife her grandmother had packed in her lunch box and was suspended for it. Assuming that this is indeed an isolated incident, not one of a series of violations, the school authorities are indeed acting like complete dicks. Would it be so hard to admonish the child to be more careful and simply send a note home with him to his parents?

And I do agree with the OP; this teaches kids to be secretive and distrustful of authorities. Perhaps that's not such a bad thing.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I started a thread back some time ago titled, "Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance." This sounds like more of the same crap as high school honor students suspended for having Midol in their purses during the time they were having their periods, or the case where a girl turned in a butter knife her grandmother had packed in her lunch box and was suspended for it.

I agree, subject to the following.

Assuming that this is indeed an isolated incident, not one of a series of violations, the school authorities are indeed acting like complete dicks.

And here is where it goes a bit off the rails.

1. The school can not correct your assumption because it must protect the student's privacy; and

2. The administrators may not have set the zero tolerance policies, often they start at the elected school board level.

If you want to limit this BS you have to do so at the local level, with school board elections.

Would it be so hard to admonish the child to be more careful and simply send a note home with him to his parents?

Would this be a violation of the rules and put the administrator's job in jeopardy?

And I do agree with the OP; this teaches kids to be secretive and distrustful of authorities.

Agree completely.

Perhaps that's not such a bad thing.

I disagree. It is a terrible thing that feeds crime in poor areas where the victims are more afraid of the police than the criminals. It goes hand in hand with our failed drug policies and racist sentencing for drug offenses. It is an awful thing for a community to not trust the police.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I disagree. It is a terrible thing that feeds crime in poor areas where the victims are more afraid of the police than the criminals. It goes hand in hand with our failed drug policies and racist sentencing for drug offenses. It is an awful thing for a community to not trust the police.

I believe the sentiment was that it's not a bad thing to distrust untrustworthy authorities. It would, of course, be better to trust trustworthy authorities if such as option was available.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I believe the sentiment was that it's not a bad thing to distrust untrustworthy authorities. It would, of course, be better to trust trustworthy authorities if such as option was available.

The sentiment didn't seem to carry the modifier in the original, but I think we agree as to the better option.

Someone else noted that zero tolerance policies send a similar message from school boards to administrators: we don't trust you to make important decisions.

 

[This is The End]

The worst part is that it teaches the completely contrary lesson "Do NOT turn in contraband."

 

[jasonpatterson]

I found the student handbook for this school district's elementary schools. The irony level of the first few pages is fairly high, with lots of mentions of tolerance and compassion and the like.

Pages 11 and 12 apply here, inasmuch as any of the thing does, but it makes no mention of treating toys as real weapons.

This doesn't seem to be as much a zero tolerance policy as a stupid principal overreacting to an honest student.

 

[Andy_Ross]

You will all change your tune in 15 years time when he goes on a shooting rampage!

 

[applecorped]

Toy gun nut.

 

[GodMark2]

Toy gun nut.

Obviously not. While his hands may or may not have been cold, they were most certainly not dead. Yet they now have his gun.

 

[TimCallahan]

The sentiment didn't seem to carry the modifier in the original, but I think we agree as to the better option.

Someone else noted that zero tolerance policies send a similar message from school boards to administrators: we don't trust you to make important decisions.

True, I should have added a modifier. My idea is that there are enough dicks out there in authority that a bit of distrust of them is healthy. That said, it is sad that the boy was punished for being compliant with the school rules.

I keep wondering if the teacher or the principal had the option of simply accepting the turned in toy gun and sending a note home with the boy to his parents that the teacher would hold onto the gun until one of the parents came to retrieve it.

 

[newyorkguy]

...Someone else noted that zero tolerance policies send a similar message from school boards to administrators: we don't trust you to make important decisions.

The history is, school ZTP were largely driven by parents who didn't trust school employees. Spurred by second-guessing following incidents, parents demanded school systems implement policies with mandatory suspensions in order to eliminate any discretion on the part of admins, some of whom were believed to be either too "soft" or too cynical to take effective action.

I think most parents would say, "Better to err on the side of caution." This boy can be restored to class and have his suspension erased from his record. Meanwhile the school has sent a powerful message to students: Don't even think about bringing a gun to school, not even a toy gun. As a parent myself....I'm not sure I really disagree with that.

 

[12AX7]

The NRA will be along shortly with a lifetime membership.

 

[MontagK505]

<snip>
I disagree. It is a terrible thing that feeds crime in poor areas where the victims are more afraid of the police than the criminals. It goes hand in hand with our failed drug policies and racist sentencing for drug offenses. It is an awful thing for a community to not trust the police.

It's a bad situation when you can't trust the people who are charged with protecting you. Not only does it breed crime it also breeds despair. When you have an entire country like this, it's a fertile ground for tribal warfare.

 

[MontagK505]

The history is, school ZTP were largely driven by parents who didn't trust school employees. Spurred by second-guessing following incidents, parents demanded school systems implement policies with mandatory suspensions in order to eliminate any discretion on the part of admins, some of whom were believed to be either too "soft" or too cynical to take effective action.

I think most parents would say, "Better to err on the side of caution." This boy can be restored to class and have his suspension erased from his record. Meanwhile the school has sent a powerful message to students: Don't even think about bringing a gun to school, not even a toy gun. As a parent myself....I'm not sure I really disagree with that.

The problem appears he was punished for turning in the fake weapon. He tried to correct the situation and was punished. This is the the more likely message that was received. To a child this suggests that adults are crazy.

 

[newyorkguy]

The problem appears he was punished for turning in the fake weapon.

It appears to me he was punished for bringing a gun to school. If he told the teachers he found the gun in the hallway and decided to turn it in and got suspended, then he'd be getting punished solely for turning in a gun. But that's not what happened, right?

He tried to correct the situation and was punished.

He was punished for bringing a gun to school. Claiming it was an accident and turning it in... Maybe they didn't believe him. Maybe they thought he decided to turn it in because one of the other kids saw it and was threatening to tell. We don't know that.

I get it, people are arguing the school went overboard. If the school had said, "Okay you made a mistake you owned up to, we'll overlook it this time," I'd be fine with that too.

If he was my son I would tell him, "This doesn't prove adults are crazy, this proves the school does not want guns, even toy guns, being brought into the school. They're not going to tolerate it." I would explain to him that some little boys like him have been hurt by kids that brought guns to school. That the school has decided they will punish anyone who brings a real gun or a toy gun into the school building.

 

[applecorped]

I brought a real WW2 pineapple hand grenade to High School. It was hollowed out but by all appearances was legit. The Vice-Principal took it and told me to pick it up at the end of the day.





Times have changed.