Firefighters do not like the truth movement....

roundhead said:
The truth likely is that 90% of those engineers arent aware of 9/11 in much of any way, since probably a week after it was over.


Heck i bet a sizeable portion of the population doesnt know North Carolina is the NCAA basketball champs less than two weeks ago.


The fact is, people are passionate about 9/11, those who are passionate about it, the largest group on one side or the other is AE911.
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Sir, in the long history of Stupid, I find that your post is the #1.

I could debunk it, but there would be not sport in it.
 
Baby Nemesis said:
But then I'm baffled as to just what would make any firefighter so angry he'd prophesy death to any Truther who started talking about conspiracy theories to any NYC firefighters.
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What are you baffled about? No FDNY firefighter has threatened any "truther" with violence. Provide evidence or please stop with this nonsense.
 
Alt+F4 said:
What are you baffled about? No FDNY firefighter has threatened any "truther" with violence. Provide evidence or please stop with this nonsense.
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I don't believe you're even reading properly. I suspect you haven't read anything I've written properly from the beginning, judging by your offbeat and unnecessarily defensive responses.

I provided the quote before. You obviously didn't like to hear it. But stop pretending it doesn't exist. That's just silly. Other people have behaved in a more mature way by explaining that yes, people did say it, but they were being hyperbolic, or weren't being serious. Slayhamlet has explained that yes, that kind of thing gets said a lot on this very site, I mean this kind of thing - "Try saying that at a New York City fire station and see if you come out in one piece" - that kind of thing. He said the thing about asking people what they wanted done with their remains wasn't really a threat that they'd be killed, but a common hyperbolic expression that they were going to be "beat up bad". While that's better than murder, obviously, I still wonder why firefighters would be angry enough to do that to them.

Still, at least some people aren't actually trying to deny the quote exists.

It's stupid of you to pretend the quotes don't exist when they clearly do. It certainly doesn't do anything for your credibility! Far better to try to explain them, as others have, or be quiet and let others do so if you can't.

Again, as I said, I wasn't claiming it was a one-on-one personal threat, as you seem to imagine. ... More like a prediction of several dozens onto one. :/

And please don't say anything else without actually reading what I've written first. You can't possibly hope to get through to me if you just keep up with this silly "Just stop this nonsense" line.
 
Baby Nemesis said:
I provided the quote before.
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That quote was not made by a member of the FDNY. Epic failure on your part trying to prove that any member of the FDNY has threatened a "truther" with death.

If OTHER persons say that a member of the FDNY said something that doesn't mean that a member of the FDNY said it. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

No "truther" has ever claimed they were threatened with death by a member of the FDNY for anything having to do with 9/11.
 
Weren't firefighters the fisrt group to demand a REAL investgation into 9/11?
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
Weren't firefighters the fisrt group to demand a REAL investgation into 9/11?
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Once again, if you paid attention, you would know that is what started this thread. Some analyst! Pfffttt....

ETA:Wow you edited it while I was checking messages.
You originally had a link to 911firefighters! Bizarre!
Why did you change your entire post?
 
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Alt+F4 said:
That quote was not made by a member of the FDNY. Epic failure on your part trying to prove that any member of the FDNY has threatened a "truther" with death.

If OTHER persons say that a member of the FDNY said something that doesn't mean that a member of the FDNY said it. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

No "truther" has ever claimed they were threatened with death by a member of the FDNY for anything having to do with 9/11.
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Epic failure on your part in not actually reading what I said properly ... again. Stupid hyper-defensiveness on your part in that you assume, with absolutely no evidence, that I'm trying to "prove" anything at all. I was simply commenting on something in hopes of an explanation. Most people here seem to have gathered that.

Whether he's a member of the New York fire department or not, I don't know, and I don't care. I didn't claim he was. If you go back and read what I originally said, carefully this time, then you'll realise that. All I know is that the one who made the dire prediction is a firefighter who actually saw one of the WTC buildings collapse, although he wasn't helping on the day, and that for some reason, he apparently feels absolutely certain that if the Truther who started Firefighters for 9/11 Truth starts saying what he said on the forum under discussion in this thread to any of the New York City fire brigades, he'd better tell them first what he wants done with his remains.

You haven't explained how you know the person who said that wasn't actually a member of the FDNY. I won't demand you provide evidence of your claim as per your own style, because Whether he was or not is actually irrelevant. What would matter is whether he's spoken to many people who are; and judging by the facts that his location is in the near vicinity, that he was close enough to watch a WTC building collapse, and he's spent years on a forum for firefighters where the discussion of Truthers has come up before, he might well be echoing a sentiment he's heard expressed before. But since I never claimed that anyone who was actually in the FDNY is threatening someone with death - again, a detail you'll grasp if you go back and read more carefully, it may be that he knows no one and he was just pulling an empty comment out of his hat. But most of the firefighters in that thread seemed rather angry.

Still, if he was just talking empty bluster, all that needs to happen is that someone here politely suggests that. If you have evidence that that's the case and you'd done that instead of engaging in your current behaviour, this discussion could have remained reasonable and polite, and you would have actually managed to get a decent point across, rather than just being antagonistic. I don't know why you want to turn this into an adversarial argument. There's no need. I simply wondered why any firefighter would think that would happen. A couple of people gave me explanations. I was satisfied. But then you come along and have to turn it into a quarrel.

Frankly, if the man who made those predictions of harm wasn't a member of the FDNY and has never spoken to anyone who is, then he's doing them rather a disservice in suggesting they're the kind of people who'd beat up a Truther just for talking about their beliefs.

And that's just how I feel when I read such sentiments on this board. Why do some people here, - debunkers at that, - do the FDNY such a grave disservice as to warn dire physical consequences to any Truther who wanders in and starts talking about their theories? I thought you lot were supposed to be defending them.
 
If you truly want to understand why a member of the FDNY would be offended by Truthers and their "theories" you would have read the thread linked in the OP. There you will find many of examples of Truthers basically telling FDNY firefighters they are wrong about the traumatic events those firefighters experienced, and positing alternative explanations that imply cowardice, stupidity, or complicity on the part of the FDNY.

Anger is a normal human response. Threats of violence, whether serious or not, tend to often accompany anger. Again, a normal human response. I'm not saying this is wrong or right, just that it is. Whatever "strangeness" you read into this scenario is just something with which you'll have to learn to live.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Then why are their disagreements?
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"Firefighters for 9/11 Truth" is basically one guy from Seattle, and maybe a couple of others.

There are 12,000 firefighters in the FDNY alone. Not one of them supports the Truth Movement.

In a large enough population, you'll always find someone irrational and delusional enough to believe in nonsense.

So far, maybe a half dozen firefighters (none of whom were anywhere near New York on 9/11) are on record as being in "disagreement".

How anyone could interpret this as even being remotely significant is beyond me.


ETA: Besides, you've previously accused the FDNY of complicity in the destruction of WTC7. Why are you suddenly so concerned with what they think?
 
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johnny karate said:
If you truly want to understand why a member of the FDNY would be offended by Truthers and their "theories" you would have read the thread linked in the OP. There you will find many of examples of Truthers basically telling FDNY firefighters they are wrong about the traumatic events those firefighters experienced, and positing alternative explanations that imply cowardice, stupidity, or complicity on the part of the FDNY.

Anger is a normal human response. Threats of violence, whether serious or not, tend to often accompany anger. Again, a normal human response. I'm not saying this is wrong or right, just that it is. Whatever "strangeness" you read into this scenario is just something with which you'll have to learn to live.
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Fair enough. I read the beginning of the post by that Truther from Firefighters for 9/11 Truth who joined the forum to put his point of view, and it seemed polite and innocuous enough, but it seemed long and boring, so I didn't read most of it. Perhaps it got more controversial after I stopped reading. I'll have another look.
 
I submitted a FOIA request some time ago, and have found that those two idiots from Seattle are in fact firefighters for SFD. BUT, at the bottom, was this disclaimer.

SFD does not support the ideas of these firefighters. We do not support their ideas in any way, shape, or form.
 
triforcharity said:
I submitted a FOIA request some time ago, and have found that those two idiots from Seattle are in fact firefighters for SFD. BUT, at the bottom, was this disclaimer.

SFD does not support the ideas of these firefighters. We do not support their ideas in any way, shape, or form.
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There are nut jobs in every profession, but if you look at the percentage in each, it is very minuscule.
 
Have those Seattle firefighters who publically disagree with the official version lost their pensions yet? If not, I think it's fair to say the NWO Seattle Branch is not pulling their weight.
 
After perusing the thread linked in the OP (man, is it great... I'm so glad they didn't delete it), I noticed there's been some activity since this thread fizzled out. Most notable are a few posts by "RainierTruckie", identifying himself as Lance Fisher of the Seattle Fire Department. He joined in with the usual tripe about the "North of Citgo" claim one of the CIT water-carriers showed up to push, and scolded a few of the "professional debunkers" (an odd, and insulting, moniker to assign your fellow firefighters, some of whom were actually there on 9/11) for their lack of decorum.

After a few posts by him, GeorgeWendtCFI, one of the leading smackdown dispensers in the thread, chimes in with this:
GeorgeWendtCFI said:
I have done something that I have never done before. But these mutts called me out.

I just fired off an email to the Chief of the Seattle FD inviting him to visit this forum. I asked him, that since these mutts were representing themselves as Seattle Fire Fighters, is their behavior condoned and endorsed by the Seattle Fire Department?

I generally would discourage someone from doing this. But, since they called me out, I thought that the admin. of the Seattle FD ought to be aware of the manner in which these three mutts are representing the other 1,000 members who serve proudly.

I realize that some of you won't like what I did. Too bad.
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And guess what?

There were no more posts by RainierTruckie after that.

:D
 
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In regular life, outside of work, your beliefs and opinions shouldn't matter. At work or regarding work is a different story, so I usually use a pseudonym. No need for either my bosses or me to apologize.
 
But, if you are using your company name to lend credibility to your cause, and that company does NOT support that cause, than it should be dealt with. Just like with Richard Gage and the AIA logo on his stuff. It INSINUATED that AIA supported him, when in fact they did not. See where I am going??

Its a little different when you work in the public sector. Everything that you do, or don't do, with that uniform on, is representing that department. You do not disgrace your department, that is one of the rules. They did not abide by it, and most likely received a stern "KNOW IT OFF" from the LT or the Capt.
 
johnny karate said:
Have those Seattle firefighters who publically disagree with the official version lost their pensions yet? If not, I think it's fair to say the NWO Seattle Branch is not pulling their weight.
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No, in fact, they are still employed, and they have had no formal discipline levied against them. I FOIA'ed that also.
 
dropzone said:
No need for either my bosses or me to apologize.
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triforcharity said:
But, if you are using your company name to lend credibility to your cause, and that company does NOT support that cause, than it should be dealt with.
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Exactly. Even more egregious than these chowderheads going around using their positions on the Seattle Fire Department as an implied appeal to authority is the outright fraud of starting a website called "Firefighters for 9/11 Truth" and pretending it represents some kind of consensus.
 
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