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Fire at Hitler's Eagle's Nest

commandlinegamer

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The 1930s' teahouse, known in English as the Eagle's Nest and German Kehlsteinhaus (after the mountain peak on which it is situated) has been set on fire and a suspect arrested:


It's one of a number of buildings associated with Hitler and the Nazi leadership who used the area of the Obersalzberg, adjacent to Berchtesgaden in southeastern Bavaria, as a retreat. The area was bombed towards the end of WW2, as the allies suspected it might be used to direct the conflict after the destruction of Berlin. After the war some properties still standing were used by the Americans as an Armed Forces Recreation Center, which continued till the mid-90s. A museum in the form of a Documentation Centre has been established, and other buildings have been removed in recent decades.

The Kehlsteinhaus had been left largely untouched, having survived the bombings, and became a popular tourist attraction, helped by its location and views of the surrounding mountains and valleys.

I visited in 87 or 88, while I was working at Berchesgaden. I can't remember much, but it did apparently have an exhibit detailing its early history, but its primary function was as a restaurant.

The question is now is whether to, depending on the level of damage, demolish, or rebuild. I'm not sure what I think at the moment.

I've been also to the villa which held the Wannsee Conference, to discuss the Final Solution, but that was unquestionably a museum which did not shy away from the horrific consequences of what happened there.

There's some useful background on the post-war situation at the Third Reich in Ruins site.
 
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The appropriate time to "completely eradicate" this building, if that was actually deemed appropriate, would have been the late 1940s.
 
The Americans and latterly Bavarians have been fairly thorough in the attempt to prevent the area becoming a shrine to Neo-Nazis and other possible supporters. As detailed in the previous link(s), most of the buildings were demolished or repurposed. Though it's worth noting that there are some remains of the Berghof, in the form of a retaining wall, still to be found.

There were have been some disturbing events not so long ago, as mentioned here:


The history of the Kehlsteinhaus has been fairly unremarkable, as far as I'm aware, in recent years. I reckon there will be controversy, whatever the authorities decide to do next.
 
I don't think you should create a no-go zone in perpetuity in the middle of prime tourist country.

e.g. Demolish that cottage Jimmy Savile used to own by all means, but if you didn't, don't come along 80 years later and burn its present occupants out of a home and a business.
 
Well.
You certainly can't demolish everything that has been soiled by the nazis. Almost nothing older than 80 years would be left in Germany.

Having said that.
There are some places, that are so much caught up in the very essence of the nazis, or their ilk in the rest of Europe, that I really question why they are still in existence.

The Kehlsteinhaus is one of them. The Zeppelin stand in Nuremberg another one.
Or more closer to home, the Wall of Anton Mussert, where our very own nazi party held their mass events.
 
Maybe it's different in Europe, but American popular culture doesn't make much of the "Eagle's Nest" at all. It's barely a footnote in our WWII lore. So what if it's a restaurant now? Also, I think some of these things should be preserved, simply so that we can bear witness to what they represent, generation to generation. Yes, these things were real; they happened, and some of them happened right here. So I leave you with a catch-22: If it's important enough of a symbol to be destroyed, then I think it should preserved exactly because it's that important. On the other hand, if it's not such a big deal after all, then I think it should be preserved because why destroy a perfectly good building just because someone got all up in their anti-Hitler feelings one Friday afternoon?

ETA: No, I'm not trivializing Hitler. Yes, I am saying even anti-Hitler sentiment can be more performative or reactionary than reasonable or practical.
 
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Maybe it's different in Europe, but American popular culture doesn't make much of the "Eagle's Nest" at all. It's barely a footnote in our WWII lore. So what if it's a restaurant now? Also, I think some of these things should be preserved, simply so that we can bear witness to what they represent, generation to generation. Yes, these things were real; they happened, and some of them happened right here. So I leave you with a catch-22: If it's important enough of a symbol to be destroyed, then I think it should preserved exactly because it's that important. On the other hand, if it's not such a big deal after all, then I think it should be preserved because why destroy a perfectly good building just because someone got all up in their anti-Hitler feelings one Friday afternoon?

ETA: No, I'm not trivializing Hitler. Yes, I am saying even anti-Hitler sentiment can be more performative or reactionary than reasonable or practical.
I can only speak for myself.

By all accounts, Berchtesgaden and especially the Konigsee is a truly lovely place to look at.
I had wanted to visit it, a few years ago, when we happened to pass it, but decided against it, precisely because Hitlers house would be on the mountain top above.
I found that I felt a feeling of almost literal revulsion coming up, by the thought of actually visiting that place. Which is not such a great feeling when on holiday.
So my first thought upon reading this news was 'and no thing of value was lost'.

As far as I'm concerned, rebuild the place with a new restaurant building, so that people can indeed enjoy the views from that mountain top, without also then standing in front of the very fire place, where Hitler relaxed.
 
I can only speak for myself.

By all accounts, Berchtesgaden and especially the Konigsee is a truly lovely place to look at.
I had wanted to visit it, a few years ago, when we happened to pass it, but decided against it, precisely because Hitlers house would be on the mountain top above.
I found that I felt a feeling of almost literal revulsion coming up, by the thought of actually visiting that place. Which is not such a great feeling when on holiday.
Fair enough. Though I think perhaps a holiday where you feel a range of things might be larger and fuller than a vacation that includes only happy thoughts. Not that a vacation that sucks in part is better than a vacation that doesn't. Just... something something human experience bla bla bla.

Anyway...

So my first thought upon reading this news was 'and no thing of value was lost'.

As far as I'm concerned, rebuild the place with a new restaurant building, so that people can indeed enjoy the views from that mountain top, without also then standing in front of the very fire place, where Hitler relaxed.
A serviceable building that houses a profitable business is very much a thing of value,

Tearing it down and replacing it would be a waste of resources - again, something of value would be lost.

Adolf Hitler is part of human history. If he's really so important, then the particular mountaintops where he set foot should bear witness to that. If Hitler ruined one mountaintop for you, then human history must have ruined the entire planet.
 
The reason we preserve such places, especially all things Third Reich, is that destroying them makes it easier for future agents of chaos to claim it never happened. The destruction of the gas chambers at Auschwitz and other concentration camps has provided a foothold for holocaust deniers simply from their absence in the present day.

No one hates Nazis more than I do. I have an uncle buried in Normandy, he died on Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944, and I'd love nothing more to even that score. BUT peace is better than revenge, and we can't have peace if we ignore, or worse - burn down - our collective history.
 

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