Finders

[Nakani]

1. You should have asked him about it.

What I had already heard was enough. Plus apparently he feared for his life, as these people didn't trust quitters. I was under the impression that asking questions might raise paranoid suspicions detrimental to my health.

2. The Devil can't give you powers or favors. Devil worship frees one from whatever moral obligations might be imposed by religions in order to go to their heavens.

You felt the need to tell me 'The devil can't give powers or favors', so, do you think maybe not everyone knows this? Alluding to the possibility that somewhere a baby has been sacrificed to satan.

3. Unless you live in the sticks, someone's going to ask about missing babies.

Right. Should keep that on the DL.

4. Somebody ALWAYS TALKS, somebody ALWAYS HAS EVIDENCE.

Like my student.

Your story is typical third-hand gossip and standard for this subject. You should have asked the guy about it. Now if he told you directly, or took you along to this version of a Black Mass and you witnessed human sacrifice you'd have case to make.

How did your boss know what he told you?

Boss told me, he told me, same thing.

The studio, as we called it, was a bit of a cult in itself. To be fully a member, took years, then there was a lengthy process designed to examine ones character and intent. It came out during a peer review.

 

[Butter!]

Not one person ever thought killing a baby or child would make the devil happy, therefore making them eligible to recieve favors or powers.

I taught martial arts long ago and one of my students was an ex-satanic cult member. I was told never to ask him about it, I didn't, he always seemed scary to me. The boss told me one of the reasons he left was the baby sacrifices. Members would get pregnant just for that reason.

I was wondering where you got your facts? Seems like something that would be hard to keep track of.

One of the reasons he left was the baby sacrifices? I think they were ******* with you, man.

Even if it were true, I doubt it would be casual do jang gossip.

 

[Nakani]

One of the reasons he left was the baby sacrifices? I think they were ******* with you, man.

Even if it were true, I doubt it would be casual do jang gossip.

Yes, that was one of the reasons. It wasn't casual gossip, it was told to me in confidence, because we were helping someone with PTSD. You had to be focused when teaching Mr. X. There were signs to look out for, when he got frustrated with something or someone was out sparring him. That would lead to scary anger. He would usually catch himself and go on a time out but it was best to change his mind before it got that far.

 

[carlitos]

Yes, that was one of the reasons. It wasn't casual gossip, it was told to me in confidence, because we were helping someone with PTSD. You had to be focused when teaching Mr. X. There were signs to look out for, when he got frustrated with something or someone was out sparring him. That would lead to scary anger. He would usually catch himself and go on a time out but it was best to change his mind before it got that far.

Mundane possibilities:
- Your student was schizophrenic or otherwise delusional
- You are lying
- You are mis-remembering
- They were messing with you
- A baby got killed somewhere, sometime and rumors started floating around, part of the overall "satanic panic" delusion in the 80s.
- Etc.

 

[Hellbound]

Pretty much with carlitos on this one. There's never been a case of this (satanic ritual abuse) ever proven in the U.S., but there were a lot of unethical "recovered memory" psychologists who made patients remember these things.

My suspicion would be it falls into that second category. Likely someone was hypnotized to recover lost memories, and got this whole set implanted. And implanted memories feel real to the individual, so it wouldn't be surprising if it led to therapy or PTSD later (caused not by actual occurrences, but the very real memories of those).

 

[ahhell]

I'm pretty sure that Nakani was just tying to point out that we can't actually say, "there never were child sacrifices conducted in underground lairs by satanist" which is true in the same sense that we can't say, "there isn't an incorporeal invisible dragon in my garage." I could be wrong and its a pretty worthless point. I can certainly say such things with a high degree of certainty.

There was a small industry built around the Satanic Panic. The previously mentioned therapists and the speaking circuit among fundy churches, to a lesser degree secular schools and more liberal minded churches. I remember getting a flier in public highschool with the signs of potential satanic cults.

Edit, I agree with with Carlitos, I my money would be on, his boss was ***** with them.

 

[Nakani]

Mundane possibilities:
- Your student was schizophrenic or otherwise delusional

Maybe

- You are lying

Never!!

- You are mis-remembering

Not that much to mis-remember, not likely.

- They were messing with you

Maybe

- A baby got killed somewhere, sometime and rumors started floating around, part of the overall "satanic panic" delusion in the 80s.

He was from the US somewhere, came to Canada to start a new life. So unlikely.

 

[Nakani]

I'm pretty sure that Nakani was just tying to point out that we can't actually say, "there never were child sacrifices conducted in underground lairs by satanist" which is true in the same sense that we can't say, "there isn't an incorporeal invisible dragon in my garage." I could be wrong and its a pretty worthless point. I can certainly say such things with a high degree of certainty.
.

Yes, that was all I was saying. Next time, no cool story to accompany my point.

 

[Axxman300]

I'm sure you're telling an honest story. The problem is that the information you received was third-hand at best. What most people don't understand is that the FBI seriously INVESTIGATED EVERY SERIOUS CLAIM. FBI agents are just regular people and most have families and the idea of some group of people killing babies is on that gets them out of bed early and keeps them up late at night. As I recall the served search warrants on many locations across the country chasing down evidence to prove this kind of thing was going on.

Then there are the local law enforcement agencies and District Attorneys who bought into this claims of Satanic Abuse - all based on "Recovered Memory Syndrome" where bad psychological manipulation was used as evidence. Innocent people went to prison on charges of child molestation in states like Florida but no Satanic Cult was ever brought into the daylight and prosecuted.

I'll give you an out.

Mass murder on a near industrial scale is possible. Unlike believers in Satanic Cults I won't post a Youtube video so you'll just have to settle for an old fashioned news paper...

I give you the "Speed Freak Killers":

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2496111-181/bodies-found-in-california-well

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2494968-181/dig-for-human-remains-resumes

Using crude maps Shermantine hand-drew in his Death Row cell, investigators have dug up three sites since Thursday that have yielded human remains.

The site of the biggest find is an abandoned well outside the city of Stockton, near the town of Linden, that produced hundreds of human bones, purses, shoes, jewelry and other evidence over the weekend. That raised Joan Shelley's hopes that her 16-year-old daughter JoAnn Hobson will be found.

"I feel they are going to find her," a tearful Shelley told The Associated Press in a phone interview from her Manteca home. JoAnn disappeared in 1985, and investigators have long suspected Shermantine and Herzog in the girl's abduction and murder. But they never had enough evidence to charge them.

Padilla said Shermantine calls the well "Herzog's boneyard," and pins all the bodies that will be found there on Herzog. That's nothing new. Beyond steadfastly refusing to disclose the location of bodies, the childhood friends have also maintained that the other single-handedly did all the killing.

Then there are the growing number of stories of women being held captive in homes across the country.

My point is that unlike the Satanic Panic we know about them because law enforcement stumbled upon them. Based on the scale of what believers tell you about Satanic sacrifice being conducted on a regular basis logic dictates we would have found a few sites by now.

 

[dann]

5. Real practitioners of the black arts who conduct rituals in publicly accessible areas don't leave evidence of their presence behind (because they want to come back and do it again).

Real practitioners of the black arts??! Really?!

 

[Childlike Empress]

Real practitioners of the black arts??! Really?!

He's been "a ghost hunter for 30 years". See #8.

 

[carlitos]

When I think of the black arts, I think of something like this.

 

[bknight]

When I think of the black arts, I think of something like this.

Nope it is black no shades.

 

[Axxman300]

Real practitioners of the black arts??! Really?!

We have, or used to have a group that held ceremonies in Big Sur whose members were an interesting mix of educate folk from a variety of professions. Santa Cruz had a few, and San Francisco had the Church of Satan which technically started everything which followed after the 1960's.

A lot of people confuse or conflate Satanism with Witchcraft. The problem with both is they are based on Catholic Theology of what the devil is and what witches are thought to be. Witchcraft was anything outside of Christianity and people who held onto cultural concepts of religion prior to the arrival of the Holy Roman Church were accused of being witches and eliminated. Full on Satan worship has always been covert. They don't advertise. The only reason I knew about the Big Sur sect was because I crossed paths with a member, often at a bookstore where I bought my Woo books, and later would work next door to this person.

So yes, serious practitioners. Not to be confused with bored teens getting high in the woods with a copy of the Necronomicon.

The age old argument of angels dancing on the head of a pin thing.

 

[Axxman300]

He's been "a ghost hunter for 30 years". See #8.

Said the person who thinks World Trade Center #7 was brought down by controlled demolition.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Said the person who thinks World Trade Center #7 was brought down by controlled demolition.

Says the person who is so far out to make claims that there are no satanists that abuse children because he's a ghost hunter for 30 years and friends with some random satanists who claim that they aren't into little kids.

And someone like this rants against obvious technical facts? Quelle surprise. Sounds quite satanic to me, though.

 

[bknight]

Says the person who is so far out to make claims that there are no satanists that abuse children because he's a ghost hunter for 30 years and friends with some random satanists who claim that they aren't into little kids.

And someone like this rants against obvious technical facts? Quelle surprise. Sounds quite satanic to me, though.

So what do you believe happened in WTC 7?

 

[Brainster]

It reminds me of an article I read, maybe in an early issue of Skeptical Inquirer, talking about an "ex-witch" who claimed that record companies used to bring her coven into the factories to bind demons into the heavy metal records they were pressing.

I wouldn't put it past some record company execs, but they'd be advertising it.

 

[Axxman300]

Says the person who is so far out to make claims that there are no satanists that abuse children because he's a ghost hunter for 30 years and friends with some random satanists who claim that they aren't into little kids.

And someone like this rants against obvious technical facts? Quelle surprise. Sounds quite satanic to me, though.

I have bad news for you, there is no hierarchy for crazy beliefs. There is no difference between 9-11 conspiracy theories and people who believe in ghosts.

None, nada, zip.

I don't believe in ghosts any more because I've done the work, I've spent time in "haunted place", and I have come up with zero evidence proving their existence. What I have found is that - some people - see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and that those beliefs taint what they think they see and have seen. For example a highrise building collapsing after burning for eight hours and after receiving unknown structural damage is a straight forward event, but for those prone to conspiratorial thinking it has to be controlled demolition regardless of what the mountain of facts are in that case.

There is no difference between a 9-11 Truther or a JFK CTists and the people who post threads up on the paranormal section of this board claiming ghosts and spirits and Bigfoot and UFO's are real.

And no, I don't mind people my credibility or credentials when it comes to something THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

 

[mgidm86]

There's actually only one real Finder and that's on OS X. Bow before the greatness of OS X!

Finder SUCKS!