Finally - some skeptical reporting at CNN

[davidsmith73]

Sorry. I didn't mean to drag that thread in here.

David Smith, to answer your question, I do not have any rebuttals that have not already been presented in the aforementioned thread by other JREFers.

Do you think the rebuttals are valid?

 

[Zygar]

You see Zygar, this is where we non believers fall down. Someone who believed, could type;

"Oh God not this sh.. again", in a response and feel much better.

Whereas all we can do is shout profuse amounts of profanities about parentage and procreation at the screen (can't put them on the forum) and nobody gets to hear/see our frustration. sigh.

My point was that there is a separate thread for this discussion, and I was hoping to prevent spillage.

Do you think the rebuttals are valid?

If you insist on dragging me into this due to my unfortunate reference to the PEAR thread in order to answer the above question... since I am fairly far behind on the thread, I will catch up tonight and offer what I have to say to the argument.

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Quote from the article:
Using science and math, Efthimiou explains why it is ghosts can't walk among us while also gliding through walls, like Patrick Swayze in the movie "Ghost." That violates Newton's law of action and reaction. If ghosts walk, their feet apply force to the floor, but if they go through walls they are without substance, the professor says.

Oh, come ON! Don't they remember how hard Patrick Swayze's ghost had to work to learn to be able to apply force?

He couldn't have had to work THAT hard. I mean he could stand on the ground couldn't he? That's something I've never been able to settle with. Ever since I was a kid, seeing the ghost that no one can see and who can't touch anything (from that old Zelda cartoon to Ghost to that one episode of Star Trek Next Generation) has left me wondering why they don't just fall to the center of the planet. I was even willing to "give" that gravity affected them, but not the ground.

 

[luchog]

Oh sacred delusions can't thou relinquish?

There are few linguistic travesties that annoy me more than abuse or misuse of Elizabethan and Jacobean English.

The proper phrasing would be "Oh sacred delusions! Canst thou not relinquish?" Proper cases and tenses, people.

 

[Garrette]

Have you got any arguments against what I've been saying in that [PEAR] thread?

David, I was a lurker in the other thread, and I was sort of in your corner, there, but now you are blatantly contradicting yourself and proving me wrong.

From the other thread:

The impression I get, David can correct me if I'm wrong, is that he doesn't disagree with you on those points. He stated at the beginning that he recognized the PEAR study has significant problems regarding how the data was collected. He's been arguing that the method of analysis used on the data did not create artifactual findings - that the analysis approach was sound - not that the PEAR paper provides suitable evidence for RV.

Thanks Beth, this is correct.

I had thought of posting something similar to what Beth posted.

It seemed to me (and your post supports this) that you know that PEAR is bunkum, but that the reason for it does not lie in the method of analysis.

Now in this thread you are saying that it's not bunkum at all.

Perhaps I have simply missed something, can you please clarify?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Remember everyone, "Extraordinary claims require only the most minimal, barely-measurable and irreproducible evidence."

David, I think if you looked into Vampires with the same standards, you would find believing in them credible. To me this a lot like the person who will use rational thinking to dismiss belief in the Loch Ness Monster, claims of New Age levitation, and so on, but think it is immoral to use the same thinking regarding the extraordinarily outrageous claim that a guy named Jesus came back to life after being dead then flew up into the sky.

Or, as mentioned in a recent Randi commentary, how some association of chiropractors can condemn someone for practicing fraudulent healing.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes. Its in the thread.

Where?

That article is a great example of debunkery by association. Mostly about vampires, then he drops in ESP. As if ESP has anything to do with vampires. Pretty empty article.

That is no evidence in this thread lets look at your next post

Wrong

Still no evidence or even real claims

There's plenty of places to find papers on the internet. They've been linked on this forum many times. It's not my fault if people continue to ignore them. I'm tired of posting the links.

I don't see any evidence or claims yet.

ESP

Have you got any arguments against what I've been saying in that thread?

I think this makes it clear that you have not been saying all that much in this thread

 

[ponderingturtle]

He couldn't have had to work THAT hard. I mean he could stand on the ground couldn't he? That's something I've never been able to settle with. Ever since I was a kid, seeing the ghost that no one can see and who can't touch anything (from that old Zelda cartoon to Ghost to that one episode of Star Trek Next Generation) has left me wondering why they don't just fall to the center of the planet. I was even willing to "give" that gravity affected them, but not the ground.

Batman beyond had that happen.