Fighting the Australian Vaccination Network

[Skeptic Guy]

I joined the fan page of the Australian Vaccination Network on Facebook so that I can distribute some real science to counteract the garbage being put forth as 'science-based medicine'.

It's the typical stuff: thermiosal causes autism, vaccines don't really work, vaccines kill more than they save...etc.

When I asked the AVN to provide evidence that thermiosal causes autism or anything else. She posted a list of 'peer-reviewed papers' that supported that contention. I would appreciate your input on them to make sure that I'm not off-base in my discussions.

Key realities about autism, vaccines, vaccine-injury compensation, Thimerosal, and autism-related research, P.G. King and G.S. Goldman/MedicalVeritas 5 (2008) 1610–1644

As evidenced by the introductory Abstract, “The propaganda dispensed by Public health care and vaccine apologists is, at best, a weak attempt to rationalize the healthcare establishment’s positions using all the tools of doublespeak or, as George Orwell’s called it in his book 1984, ‘newspeak’”, this report obviously is biased and highly questionable.

An Investigation of the Association Between MMR Vaccination and Autism in Denmark; G.S. Goldman, Ph.D., F.E. Yazbak, M.D., F.A.A.P., Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons Volume 9 Number 3 Fall 2004

Seems to suggest further study but I only see correlation not causation.

Gastrointestinal abnormalities in children with autism; Horvath K, Papadimitriou JC, Rabsztyn A, Drachenberg C, Tildon JT., J. Pediatrics, 1999 November; 135(5):559–63

The only thing I see here is that there is evidence that autistic children are subject to gastrointestinal disorders. I see nothing that ties that to vaccines.

Constipation With Acquired Megarectum in Children With Autism; Nadeem Afzal, MRCPCH*, Simon Murch, PhD*, Kumran Thirrupathy, MBBS*, Leslie Berger, FRCR, Andrew Fagbemi, MRCPCH* and Robert Heuschkel, FRCPCH*, PEDIATRICS Vol. 112 No. 4 October 2003, pp. 939-942

Again, autistic children have gastrointestinal issues. Nothing about vaccines.

Autism, viral infection and measles mumps rubella vaccination; Wakefield AJ and Montgomery SM, Israeli Medical Association Journal 1999;1:183-187

Given that Wakefield is one of the writers for this report, I think it highly questionable.

Measles virus and autism; O'Leary JJ, Uhlmann V, Wakefield AJ, Lancet. 2000 Aug 26;356(9231):772

Same with this. Wasn’t this the report that was pulled from the Lancet.

Measles vaccination and inflammatory bowel disease: a national British Cohort Study; Morris DL, Montgomery SM, Thompson NP, Ebrahim S, Pounder RE, Wakefield
AJ, Am J Gastroenterol. 2000 Dec;95(12):3507-12

Potential viral pathogenic mechanism for new variant inflammatory bowel disease; Uhlmann V, Martin CM, Sheils O, Pilkington L, Silva I, Killalea A, Murch SB, Walker-Smith J, Thomson M, Wakefield AJ, O'Leary JJ, Mol Pathol. 2002 Apr;55(2):84-90

The two above are also Wakefield. Are they viable reports?

What do you think the best approach to take with this information?

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Wakefield? NO NON NON!!
http://briandeer.com/wakefield-deer.htm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/03/brian_deer_responds_to_andrew_wakefield.php

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/autis...r_andrew_wakefield_accused_of_faking_his_data

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Denmark:

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2005/05/prenatal-risk-factors-for-autism-in.html

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/Vaccines/MMRDen.html

There was no association between development of autism and age at vaccination (95% before two years of age) or the interval between vaccination and development of autism with no clustering at any particular time.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Thanks EOS.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/91/

Promoters of the hypothesis that autism is a common adverse reaction to vaccination rely heavily upon articles published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPandS, originally Medical Sentinel). Previous perusals of JPandS tables of contents left me with the general impression that its sponsors tended toward the conservative end of the political spectrum. I therefore decided to make a comprehensive survey of the website of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, to get a sense of the convictions driving its editorial policies.


...The U.S. Food and Drug Administration and Health Care Financing Administration are both derided as unconstitutional. Medicare is roundly condemned. Members are encouraged to refuse to participate in Medicare, and are offered practical advice towards achieving that goal:

...AAPS opposes the concept of evidence-based medicine, warning its members that:


...The philosophy of Ayn Rand is frequently invoked in quotation and analogy:

...Opponents of fluoridation are portrayed as struggling heroes fighting against an intransigent, all-powerful establishment:

Over the past three years, JPandS‘ editors have devoted the greatest proportion of its space to articles alleging drastic harm by vaccines. The inaugural issue featured the first appearance in an AAPS journal of Dr. Mark Geier and David Geier, a father-son consulting team specializing in providing legal consultation to vaccine-injury plaintiffs. Almost every subsequent issue of JPandS has featured articles associating vaccines with autism or death, and critical of vaccine research, some written by authors previously published in Medical Sentinel, others by newcomers.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Thanks EOS.

Not even close to done yet...

See above about that stupid Journal.

I'll post stuff about Geiers next...

 

[Eos of the Eons]

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2005/06/geiers.html

Scientists say that the Geiers' studies are tainted by faulty methodology.


...a judge in a vaccine case in 2003 ruled that Dr. Geier was "a professional witness in areas for which he has no training, expertise and experience."

In other cases, judges have called Dr. Geier's testimony "intellectually dishonest," "not reliable" and "wholly unqualified."

...In a report last year, a panel convened by the institute dismissed the Geiers' work as having such serious flaws that their studies were "uninterpretable." Some of the Geiers' mathematical formulas, the committee found, "provided no information," and the Geiers used basic scientific terms like "attributable risk" incorrectly.

They advocate a treatment that chemically castrates boys:

...the Geiers came up with a "hypothesis" (my fingers seized up as I typed that, not wanting to dignify their idiotic idea with such a scientific term) that testosterone somehow bound to mercury, making it harder to chelate. They even claimed that testosterone binds to mercury and forms "sheets" in the brain, leading to a complex that can't pass the blood-brain barrier and keeps mercury in the body, a complex that the quackery known as chelation therapy won't chelate. They claimed that autistic children were really undergoing premature puberty and had too much testosterone. So what was their solution?

As I pointed out before, their solution was chemical castration using a powerful anti-sex hormone drug called Lupron. They even called it their "Lupron protocol," and a disturbing number of parents not only fell for this disturbing abuse of autistic children, but they even paid for it

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/05/why_not_just_castrate_them_part_2.php



http://scienceblogs.com/whitecoatunderground/2009/05/do_the_geiers_hate_autistic_ch.php

 

[Skeptic Guy]

http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/91/

I remember them from a NYT article a few years ago. This is good.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

So, Wakefield was paid by lawyers to find something wrong with MMR, and in his study there were 12 kids? Some didn't have autism? So, he says MMR causes autism, cuz it's three vaccines in one. Then he tried to bank on his fracced findings by patenting and offering up single vaccines. So many conflicts of interest! If measles in the gut causes autism, then measles (not just vaccine) should darn well cause autism too.


Then we have the goofy Geiers, which only points to how awful that Journal is, among other reasons outlined in the link.


Harriet Hall addressed Wakefield at TAM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el5jYoaoV_E

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

Weren't AAPS the ones who claimed that asylum seekers had caused 300 leprosy cases in the US over the last three years when the 300 cases, which were not attributable specifically to asylum seekers, were in fact of the last 30 years?

Or are we talking about the AAPS that claims that hiv does not cause aids and that there is a conspiracy to replace Jehovah with evolution? Or that being gay shortens the life expectancy with 20 years and that abortion causes premature birth and cerebral palsy in future children?

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Yep, real reputable bunch. Antivaxxers don't care though. They just keep on linking them, the AVN, Wakefield, Geiers, etc. That makes them raving crazy IMO, but they think they have a point somehow.

 

[Estellea]

SG, Medical Veritas is vanity press, neither peer-reviewed nor indexed. As for GI issues with autistic children, which is the premise for Wakers 'autistic enterocolitis' hypothesis, they don't appear to be any more prevalent in autistic children than NT children. http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=2652 and the links to the studies are provided. Here and here are takedowns of some articles used to support the Wakers claim. Of particular use is the Omnibus Autism Proceeding, which has dealt a severe blow to the thimerosal/MMR autism hypothesis.

 

[Dave_46]

Peter Bowditch (PeterB on this forum) has been fighting these people for ages, see http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/index.html

Dave

 

[Chris Haynes]

Key realities about autism, vaccines, vaccine-injury compensation, Thimerosal, and autism-related research, P.G. King and G.S. Goldman/MedicalVeritas 5 (2008) 1610–1644

Goldman has a PhD in computer science. Along with being the editor of his own journal, he also runs a school that includes home instruction:
http://www.pearblossomschool.com/description.html

Which begs the question, if he is a computer scientist, why does he such a amateurish website design?

 

[Skeptic Guy]

I'm afraid that the AVN has kicked me off of their FB page. I can no longer post there. I'm afraid I pissed her off too much.

I've asked to become a fan again, but some how I doubt it.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Goldman has a PhD in computer science. Along with being the editor of his own journal, he also runs a school that includes home instruction:
http://www.pearblossomschool.com/description.html

Which begs the question, if he is a computer scientist, why does he such a amateurish website design?

Examples of software this 'computer scientist' is selling on his professional website.

Scripture Recall Game
This game is fun for the whole family are a group of players. The first word in a scripture is provided and the players attempt to complete the Scripture and/or tell the corresponding book of the Bible and author. Each successive word in the Scripture is revealed until a player can complete the Scripture, however fewer points are earned as more words are revealed. Additional key Scriptures can be added to the database as desired and incorporated into the game. A single individual can utilize the program to enhance memorization skills. Select Enrollment Application and check the box labeled Scripture Recall Game to order.

Illustration Library
This is a resource of Theocratic illustrations on a variety of topics including attitudes, marriage, family, pioneering, etc. It is available in two formats which contain the identical contents: 1) CD-ROM which allows the user to search for a key word or phrase, and 2) Spiral-bound Book which contains an index of words. Select Enrollment Application and check the box labeled Illustration Library and either the CD-ROM or Spiral-bound Book option (or both if desired).

 

[Skeptic Guy]

SG, Medical Veritas is vanity press, neither peer-reviewed nor indexed. As for GI issues with autistic children, which is the premise for Wakers 'autistic enterocolitis' hypothesis, they don't appear to be any more prevalent in autistic children than NT children. http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=2652 and the links to the studies are provided. Here and here are takedowns of some articles used to support the Wakers claim. Of particular use is the Omnibus Autism Proceeding, which has dealt a severe blow to the thimerosal/MMR autism hypothesis.

This is brilliant! I am so disappointed I was banned on the FB page.

 

[Estellea]

This is brilliant! I am so disappointed I was banned on the FB page.

Thanks. It isn't surprising that you were banned; anti-vaccinationists are notorious for heavily moderating their sites to perpetuate communal reinforcement.

 

[Deetee]

All antivax sites do this. JABS is the uk equivalent.
They just want an echo chamber where they can tell tall tales without contradiction.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Not only was I banned, but she deleted all my posts from the threads in which I participated. However, she left her responses in which she referred to me by name, so it makes for some funny reading.