Feminist Bullies Tearing the Video Game Industry Apart

[Abdul Alhazred]

The only new information is the right wing has noticed.

Subject line is Breitbart's headline not mine.

Free Republic thread linking to Breitbart
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3199512/posts

One commenter opines ...

... Eventually though, men will have to step up and be men again. ...

But will such men be video game developers? Or players?

Note: The best game EVAR is totally not sexist.

 

[RockNroll]

[...] Eventually though, men will have to step up and be men again. [...]

Blech. I'm the kind of guy who enjoys a lot of the stereotypical guy stuff, but when I hear inane insecure garbage like that, I kinda want to throw up a little.
People will be whatever they damn well please, whether or not it fits with your undoubtedly idiotic and irrational notions of what constitutes "manliness". If that bothers you, I hear Saudi Arabia is lovely this time of year.

(directed at whoever wrote that quote, not the O.P. )

 

[Cleon]

Of course, Breitbart and Co are losing their **** over this bit of news. Anita Sarkeesian bullied some poor, innocent men into sending her death threats.

 

[Aepervius]

It is usually not that simple.

The problem is that you have some (I would not be able to tell if they are the majority, in my experience not, they are very very vocal - think westborough church pitch high and very wrong) which makes threat against a few people, Anita Saakrisan as noted above. That's true. But the problem is that the threat against her has become the SOLE point of discussion, and has become in some circle synonym of "all gamer are sexist" AND "that means Anita was right".

Problem is, the valid critic of her work then gets immediately dismissed simply because apparently the rape threat trump reason. The same with gamer in general, a few are vocal, and suddenly the whole group I would name "gamer" (read people for which it turns as a hobby and involve more than playing game, rather than those which just happen to play game) is qualified as sexist, rapist, irrelevant to present, soon to disappear, irrational etc...

The bottom line is that people making rape threat should get the law book thrown at them, but that does not mean gamer are wrong and that anita/feminist frequency argument are all correct.

ETA: bottom line is that this is a problem of overgeneralization you often see in public media and public at large. A few of a group go way beyond what is permissible => the whole group get flagged.

 

[Vermonter]

A few things. The idiots making threats against Anita Sarkeesian should be prosecuted and dealt with to the full extent of the law. She has every right to say what she wants, and she has every right to be free from harassment.

That said. I believe she is intellectually dishonest and her articles and videos reflect that. She has an agenda that she pushes it hard, and why not? She's been given a massive audience and massive publicity. That does not make her a [insert vulgar insult of choice].

I think she's wrong, and has been demonstrated to make things up out of thin air. If one wishes to refute her arguments and call her out on her misinformation, then that is all one needs to do. Bringing in her gender or calling her names only undermines one's position and provides ammunition for her to use.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of trolls and idiots out there who have no manners and attack her personally. As Aepervius said, this in turn flags the whole group and any legitimate, rational arguments and refutations are drowned out and ignored in the sea of trolls and sociopaths.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Lifelong gamer and I was uncomfortable with the way women are portrayed in games a long time ago.
Time to step into the new century kids.

 

[Cleon]

It is usually not that simple.

The problem is that you have some (I would not be able to tell if they are the majority, in my experience not, they are very very vocal - think westborough church pitch high and very wrong) which makes threat against a few people, Anita Saakrisan as noted above. That's true. But the problem is that the threat against her has become the SOLE point of discussion, and has become in some circle synonym of "all gamer are sexist" AND "that means Anita was right".

Nobody's said "all gamers are sexist." Anita is a gamer. But there is a trend of really horrible sexism among gamer communities. Case in point: threats against her life.

I work at a game studio and see it all the time. Some of the comments we see in public forums about our female streamers are really, really disgusting.

Problem is, the valid critic of her work

If your summary of her thesis is "all gamers are sexist," then frankly it's not valid criticism, it's a ridiculous strawman.

 

[Vermonter]

Just to clarify, I do agree with Monketey Ghost. There is a problem with how women have been are continue to be portrayed in games, and this should be addressed and discussed.

 

[Aepervius]

Nobody's said "all gamers are sexist." Anita is a gamer. But there is a trend of really horrible sexism among gamer communities. Case in point: threats against her life.

I work at a game studio and see it all the time. Some of the comments we see in public forums about our female streamers are really, really disgusting.



If your summary of her thesis is "all gamers are sexist," then frankly it's not valid criticism, it's a ridiculous strawman.

It might be my english but no I did not say that it was her thesis. I jsut said that criticism of her thesis is welcomed so and the whole group flagged. Not by her.

In fact rather than jumping at strawman you could have asked for clarification (ETA: I note that you skipped the "in some circle")...

 

[drewid]

It is usually not that simple.

The problem is that you have some (I would not be able to tell if they are the majority, in my experience not, they are very very vocal - think westborough church pitch high and very wrong) which makes threat against a few people, Anita Saakrisan as noted above. That's true. But the problem is that the threat against her has become the SOLE point of discussion, and has become in some circle synonym of "all gamer are sexist" AND "that means Anita was right".

Problem is, the valid critic of her work then gets immediately dismissed simply because apparently the rape threat trump reason. The same with gamer in general, a few are vocal, and suddenly the whole group I would name "gamer" (read people for which it turns as a hobby and involve more than playing game, rather than those which just happen to play game) is qualified as sexist, rapist, irrelevant to present, soon to disappear, irrational etc...

The bottom line is that people making rape threat should get the law book thrown at them, but that does not mean gamer are wrong and that anita/feminist frequency argument are all correct.

ETA: bottom line is that this is a problem of overgeneralization you often see in public media and public at large. A few of a group go way beyond what is permissible => the whole group get flagged.

Exactly. I have problems with some of the things she describes as "sexist" particularly in early video games. For example Ms Pacman gets a bow / lipstick as a gender identifier and that's sexist? In a circular yellow sprite 16 pixels tall you're kinda stuck for choice frankly (Though the advertising was admittedly poor ), and indeed she does have a tendency to do things that most game players would never think to do in order to push the point, which really doesn't help her cause. Somtimes it's so unbalanced that you have to wonder if she's doing it to deliberately provoke an over-the-top response. But to her credit the publicity surrounding her has pushed it forward as a talking point within the industry, as well as in the surrounding culture.

Obviously though backlash to this from some quarters is juvenile and grim, and in some cases actually criminal.

Once the flag waving starts a proper debate becomes difficult.

 

[Kahalachan]

Fanboyism is what tears the industry apart. Criticize a person's favorite game and the response will be nearly identical as if you told a religious fanatic their god isn't real.

It allows less quality games if a developer just needs to rehash a game or let the name brand sell the game and lets the quality slide.

If someone points out sexism in games a fanboy can't just rationally debate against the points and has to make threats.

Entertainment should be filled with artistic variety. Manly men have their place as do feminine men, manly women, and girly girls.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

The gaming industry is basically pandering to the fanatics, who may have lifelong loyalty, but will deny you bigger markets.

 

[Mudcat]

Lifelong gamer and I was uncomfortable with the way women are portrayed in games a long time ago.
Time to step into the new century kids.

If you believe so this seems to be exactly the thread to explain why the portrayal of women in video games makes you uncomfortable and what you suggest could be done to improve that.

But in any case, I think that the portrayal of women is too broad to say it's sexualist. At one end of the spectrum you have women that exist solely to be kidnaped by the antagonist and saved by the protagonist, like princess Toadstool/Peach, and on the other you have the women who are more likely to save themselves, like Samus Aran, with everything in between like princess Zelda becoming a konoichi (Link to the Past, Hyrule Warriors) or a pirate (Windwaker) in one iteration or being a damsel in distress in still others or Midna being both damsel in distress and dark lord in equal measure (Twilight Princess).

In my opinion, this is exactly the way it should be.

 

[Checkmite]

If you believe so this seems to be exactly the thread to explain why the portrayal of women in video games makes you uncomfortable and what you suggest could be done to improve that.

But in any case, I think that the portrayal of women is too broad to say it's sexualist. At one end of the spectrum you have women that exist solely to be kidnaped by the antagonist and saved by the protagonist, like princess Toadstool/Peach, and on the other you have the women who are more likely to save themselves, like Samus Aran, with everything in between like princess Zelda becoming a konoichi (Link to the Past, Hyrule Warriors) or a pirate (Windwaker) in one iteration or being a damsel in distress in still others or Midna being both damsel in distress and dark lord in equal measure (Twilight Princess).

In my opinion, this is exactly the way it should be.

I disagree. The spectrum you describe certainly exists; but I think it would be tough to make a convincing argument that there is equal distribution of games across it - or even a nice centralized bell curve. If it's the case that a majority of females in games are of the damsel motif, a relative handful of titles with strong and independent female leads on the other end doesn't square the see-saw.

But of course, gamer attitudes are a legitimate topic of discussion; I'm not sure why so many are in a hurry to dismiss or minimize that debate.

 

[catsmate]

The gaming industry is basically pandering to the fanatics, who may have lifelong loyalty, but will deny you bigger markets.

There's been a trend that way in other media too.

 

[Tony]

The mountainous number of crappy and poorly written games are what tear the industry apart.

 

[Tony]

The spectrum you describe certainly exists; but I think it would be tough to make a convincing argument that there is equal distribution of games across it - or even a nice centralized bell curve.

I've never seen convincing evidence either way.

If it's the case that a majority of females in games are of the damsel motif, a relative handful of titles with strong and independent female leads on the other end doesn't square the see-saw.

None of the games I play rely on or even feature the damsel-in-distress trope. From my subjective experience, the amount of games that have strong female characters far out number the ones that don't.

 

[SumDood]

I disagree. The spectrum you describe certainly exists; but I think it would be tough to make a convincing argument that there is equal distribution of games across it - or even a nice centralized bell curve. If it's the case that a majority of females in games are of the damsel motif, a relative handful of titles with strong and independent female leads on the other end doesn't square the see-saw.

Is there any medium where such equal distribution exists? Movies? Absolutely not. Books? Maybe. TV? Probably not. Is it a bad thing that most action movies have male leads? Should we strive for a 50-50 split of male vs. female? In theory, sure why not? But what would be the point?

 

[dudalb]

Lifelong gamer and I was uncomfortable with the way women are portrayed in games a long time ago.
Time to step into the new century kids.

I think that a lot of people in the gaming industry do not grasp how big gaming has become and it no longer has to tailor it's appeal to 16 year old males.

But some things do change. Lara Croft, in the latest Tomb Raider game, actually looks like a Human Being and not a T and A fantasy of a 16 year old.

 

[ehcks]

Oh good, more news for the new Jack Thompson clone.

Calling a game, Hitman, sexist because it includes a mission where you try to stop exploitation of women by killing a mob boss. Yeah, ok, I'll give her all the credibility that deserves.