FED Conspiracy theories

This isn't accurate. Eustace Mullins, for instance, was writing about the Federal Reserve and Jekyll Island long before G. Edward Griffin. And before Mullins there were congressmen questioning the Federal Reserve.

I said popularised, and Griffin is the one who did that to Fed conspiracies. In recent times it’s garbage like the Money Masters & Zeitgeist that brought the BS to gullible little youtube watchers.

Read that Huffington Post piece I linked up above and then ask yourself how much an economics degree is really worth when the academe is largely controlled by the Federal Reserve along with all useful criticism.

Haha, that’s the way champ, all relevant experts are wrong because their livelihoods depend on the benevolence of the Fed. Priceless. An economics degree would at least give you the tools to understand why virtually everything you’ve said in this thread is wrong. At the moment, it is impossible to illustrate why/how you’re wrong, because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. A common issue with conspiracy theorists.

But, just in case I am wrong about you, and you really are an honest researcher who just happens to have found bad information, feel free to re-educate yourself with the following link (and subsequent responses to common Fed myths).

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty1.html
 
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I somehow missed this response from the second page.

So, you're saying it's a deliberate and conscious political decision by our politicians to spend the U.S. taxpayer into higher and higher levels of debt?

What might their aims be in following such a ruinous fiscal policy? Any ideas?

As long as the American public still wants the services the government provides to them, any spending cuts are not going to be taken well. People want lower taxes and more services, so they don't vote in the people that would fix the problem.

It is a stupid, ruinous fiscal policy, but the fault for that lies squarely at the feet of the U.S. electorate.

You have to read Quigley. He explains all that, including how the U.S. political system has been hijacked and is secretly run by the Council on Foreign Relations and why these policies are pursued (basically to bring about economic conditions in the United States where the people will actually want world government). I can't do his multi-page explanation justice.

You really should also go back and watch those videos I linked. Nothing short of a lot of Quigley reading will explain what's really going on better than those videos. In less than an hour you will know more about what is going on in the United States and the real geopolitical picture than anybody on this board.

Okay, I've watched the first two videos. The primary impression I got: lots of nice big words, but very, very little proof. He indulges in quite a bit of begging the question, particularly with regards to the control exerted by the banks. There's no evidence of how that is done without anybody noticing that it's really bankers giving the orders for our day-to-day governance.

There are NO MAJOR DIFFERENCES. Any differences you see are cosmetic only and meant to keep you from realizing that the two parties are really just one party controlled by the same people. For instance, one party might favor a 35% tax bracket while the other might favor a 32% tax bracket, and they'll sell this to the American people as a huge issue. It's really not. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

... First off, I'm going to assume you mean no major differences regarding economic policy. Second off, I don't think your argument is true even if you just consider economic policy. I seem to recall rather large controversies over the stimulus package and the tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration.

I wish this were true, but I think if you were to go back in time to 1910 and describe for them how society would be in 100 years (racial integration, porn on demand everywhere you look, a completely usury-based monetary system, etc...), they would laugh at you and say some variation of, "there are some lines people will resist crossing!". Barriers are constantly being broken down. People get used to things they never would have believed even possible.

And yet in many ways the country is better off than it used to be. Standard of living is higher, we're closer to racial and gender equality, and technology has absolutely taken off. Are there negative changes? Probably, but in general things have improved, hence the lack of resistance.
 
Been there, done that.

Is there some specific part of the Flaherty argument you wish to highlight?

So, you’re claiming that you have the facts, but instead you choose to believe wild conspiracy theories? Well, at least you’re honest.

No, I have no desire to beat my head up against the nth uneducated person who doesn’t understand economics, and who believes in unicorns because it satisfies their worldview.
 
I just wanted to say what a quality debunking has been going on here with the Federal Reserve mythology that SpringHallConvert has been pushing. I was going to join in but, sadly, this one just keeps bringing up the same old debunked federal reserve conspiracy propaganda that we've all seen before. I wish the federal reserve CTers would get some new material, as its getting rather boring to see the same tired arguments from them over and over.

Anyways, carry on :D
 
drkitten, no offense, but you really don't understand the U.S. monetary system or the Federal Reserve. That's not your fault, though, and I don't hold it against you personally. To most people this is a very nebulous subject and our education system certainly doesn't teach it to any real extent. If anything, our schools try to steer us away from understanding the nature of money.

Anybody else here want to give this a shot?

If drkitten is your "noted expert" here, it's no wonder so much of the stuff I have read here in the last 24-hours is utter nonsense.

He's getting effortlessly blasted in this thread.

Such much unfounded arrogance from someone who understands so little..........

I came here to discuss monetary policy, monetary concepts, and central banking with well-read people who have the ability to argue the non-conspiratorial viewpoint that runs counter to mine. I actually enjoy being challenged and made to think. So far I haven't found that in this thread.

Is there anybody else on this website who can intelligently carry an argument without being disingenuous or is this the best I am going to get? Because if this is the best, there are other boards I can participate on where the level of discussion is higher.

I don't mind explaining these concepts to people or sharing my views, but wasting my time combating trolls is old and it always ends the same way.
No you came here to pontificate and stroke your ego. You had your ideas shredded (not that they're actually yours, they're just rehashed conspiratorial nonsense) by people who actually understand economics.
Now you're trying to paper over your humiliating defeat. Soon I expect you'll either declare victory or run away. Or possibly suicide by mod.
Anyway I won't be seeing your drivel thanks to the forum's Ignore feature. Goodbye.
 
actually, I think the CT bingo post is this one:

It's really the other way around. I know this because I've seen all his arguments before and they don't hold up under scrutiny. Your understanding of the Federal Reserve and U.S. monetary policy, as far as I can tell, has been molded by your participation here.

Translation : if you already believe me [SHC], you will find my arguments compelling, but if you actually know anything about economics I [SHC] have nothing I can say to you.

If you've not already drunk the Kool-ade, I have no reason or evidence so all I can do is call you brainwashed.
 
So, you’re claiming that you have the facts, but instead you choose to believe wild conspiracy theories? Well, at least you’re honest.

How do you know they are facts? How do you know Edward Flaherty isn't a paid Fed shill put on the web to spread disinformation? I mean, how do you really know?

Ed Flaherty is known for one thing. He puts up a good straw man argument and then bats it down to wild applause from people like yourself. He misrepresents arguments, sprinkles the scary 'conspiracy' word generously throughout, and then gives half-answers about why the conspiracy "myth" is wrong, when it's plainly not. Even worse, he editorializes some answers which he can't possibly know for sure because the Federal Reserve is so secret.

Nobody knows some of the stuff he argues, unless of course, he is working for them and is being told how to answer.
 
If you've not already drunk the Kool-ade, I have no reason or evidence so all I can do is call you brainwashed.

Translation: I clearly bit off more than I can chew here. I can debunk some people, but not you. I'll high tale it out of here before I am exposed any worse for the fraud I really am.
 
You had your ideas shredded (not that they're actually yours, they're just rehashed conspiratorial nonsense) by people who actually understand economics.
Now you're trying to paper over your humiliating defeat. Soon I expect you'll either declare victory or run away. Or possibly suicide by mod.
Anyway I won't be seeing your drivel thanks to the forum's Ignore feature. Goodbye.

The sign of a weak, ostrich mind:

The 'ignore feature'.

When you can't win an argument, ignore it.

Also, I am still waiting for someone here to shred my arguments. My very first post in this thread stands unmolested.
 
Some of you should observe and learn from how Lyrander discusses these issues. He may quietly think to himself that I am an unworthy conspiracy nut, but at least he knows better than to dismissively say so.
 
As long as the American public still wants the services the government provides to them, any spending cuts are not going to be taken well. People want lower taxes and more services, so they don't vote in the people that would fix the problem.

It is a stupid, ruinous fiscal policy, but the fault for that lies squarely at the feet of the U.S. electorate.

I think there's more going on than just people wanting more than what can be paid for, and a lot of it has to do with how the corporate media frames the debate for any given issue. People aren't being informed of the reality of our fiscal situation, just like they aren't informed about the Federal Reserve and how the U.S. monetary system relies on the expansion of debt to fuel the expansion of the economy (how backward is that?).

Okay, I've watched the first two videos. The primary impression I got: lots of nice big words, but very, very little proof.

All proof of this conspiracy, if it is as Vrabel and Quigley say it is, would be circumstantial. Kind of like pieces of a puzzle that haven't been arranged into a full picture yet. If you look at one piece of evidence, like, for instance, our usury-based monetary system, the entire picture won't come into view. But if you look at dozens of the pieces, you can start to make out a bigger, more clear picture.

So what are those pieces of the puzzle? They are all around us (exploding debts, government insolvency at the federal and state level, more government programs that can't possibly be paid for, expanding military empire, a biased media that doesn't inform the public of the real issues, an education system that is deliberately dumbing the populace down, bailouts for banks that have been run like casinos, Obama carrying out the same policies of Bush immediately after he promised not to, etc...) and buried in the pages of history (Philip Dru: Administrator, The Naked Capitalist, None Dare Call it Conspiracy, Rule by Secrecy, etc...). It's obviously not enough for me to tell you they are there, you have to take it upon yourself to explore on your own.

He indulges in quite a bit of begging the question, particularly with regards to the control exerted by the banks. There's no evidence of how that is done without anybody noticing that it's really bankers giving the orders for our day-to-day governance.

People do notice that it's the banks and multinational corporations controlling things. Nobody does anything about it, though. Nobody can. It's so ingrained into the system that the people and government officials who do care are up against a brick wall.

The banks have all the money and the government has all the guns.

... First off, I'm going to assume you mean no major differences regarding economic policy. Second off, I don't think your argument is true even if you just consider economic policy. I seem to recall rather large controversies over the stimulus package and the tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration.

I have on answer for you:

Hegelian dialectic. Research it. Understand what it means. This is the method by which the ruling class steers the people in a direction they don't want to move in. They artificially create wedge issues (tax cuts, immigration, ground zero mosque, gay marriage, stimulus, etc...), have all the people take one side of the debate against the other, and then use the media to carefully frame the debate so that the compromise always moves the country in a favored direction or distracts the public from more important issues.

Once you understand this mechanism, you'll know why these unimportant controversies dominate the news.

And yet in many ways the country is better off than it used to be. Standard of living is higher, we're closer to racial and gender equality, and technology has absolutely taken off. Are there negative changes? Probably, but in general things have improved, hence the lack of resistance.

Yes, the best slaves are the ones who don't know they are slaves. If you make a slave comfortable and incrementally improve his life over time, he'll be content - if not happy - with his condition.

The real truth is that our standard of living and our society could be so much better, so much freer, so much more creative, less stressful, and less violent. The productive efforts of the citizens of this country are being surreptitiously siphoned away through the monetary system for the purpose of creating a new society in the vision of people working behind the scenes.
 
I clearly bit off more than I can chew here.

Now this I would believe.

I can debunk some people, but not you.

This, however, I doubt. You can't "debunk" what's in almost any decent finance text on any library shelf.

I'll high tale it out of here before I am exposed any worse for the fraud I really am.

Please do. And spell "tail" correctly when you do.
 
You can't "debunk" what's in almost any decent finance text on any library shelf.

You mean those same finance textbooks that the folks at the Fed were reading right before the financial system crashed and which they now claim they couldn't have forseen happening? Shocking!

You dropped a turd and stepped right into it there.

Please do. And spell "tail" correctly when you do.

Sure, just as soon as you learn to spell...

 
I think there's more going on than just people wanting more than what can be paid for, and a lot of it has to do with how the corporate media frames the debate for any given issue. People aren't being informed of the reality of our fiscal situation, just like they aren't informed about the Federal Reserve and how the U.S. monetary system relies on the expansion of debt to fuel the expansion of the economy (how backward is that?).

Is it that people are not being informed of the reality of the fiscal hole we're digging for ourselves, or that they don't want to be? Nobody likes to think about the problem, since there are very few viable solutions. I'm not sure ignorance on this issue should necessarily be attributed to a conspiracy.

All proof of this conspiracy, if it is as Vrabel and Quigley say it is, would be circumstantial. Kind of like pieces of a puzzle that haven't been arranged into a full picture yet. If you look at one piece of evidence, like, for instance, our usury-based monetary system, the entire picture won't come into view. But if you look at dozens of the pieces, you can start to make out a bigger, more clear picture.

*description snipped*

The problem I have with this is that there are a number of other, simpler explanations for any number of those "pieces" than the existence of a grand financial conspiracy that's inciting and controlling all of them.

People do notice that it's the banks and multinational corporations controlling things. Nobody does anything about it, though. Nobody can. It's so ingrained into the system that the people and government officials who do care are up against a brick wall.

The banks have all the money and the government has all the guns.

You can say that, but that doesn't really help me figure out how to find evidence that this control is being exerted.

I have on answer for you:

Hegelian dialectic. Research it. Understand what it means. This is the method by which the ruling class steers the people in a direction they don't want to move in. They artificially create wedge issues (tax cuts, immigration, ground zero mosque, gay marriage, stimulus, etc...), have all the people take one side of the debate against the other, and then use the media to carefully frame the debate so that the compromise always moves the country in a favored direction or distracts the public from more important issues.

Once you understand this mechanism, you'll know why these unimportant controversies dominate the news.

This Hegelian dialectic?

I don't have the time to go over that in detail at the moment, but a quick perusal makes me think that that term doesn't as easily or readily apply to this issue as you think it does. In general, the idea seems to be that a given idea gives rise to a counterpoint, then the point and counterpoint get unified into one idea with the best traits of both. This is how I think things are supposed to work, and it doesn't give me any reason to believe that this process is intentionally being shaped by political power brokers.

In fact, applying Occam's razor to this, I come up with the idea that these wedge issues get air time because people have a tendency to care more than they should about minor issues, not necessarily because there's some grand strategy at the upper levels of finance to drive these issues for their benefit.

Yes, the best slaves are the ones who don't know they are slaves. If you make a slave comfortable and incrementally improve his life over time, he'll be content - if not happy - with his condition.

The real truth is that our standard of living and our society could be so much better, so much freer, so much more creative, less stressful, and less violent. The productive efforts of the citizens of this country are being surreptitiously siphoned away through the monetary system for the purpose of creating a new society in the vision of people working behind the scenes.

My main problem with this is that you haven't provided any evidence that things would really be so much better without the Fed. I know you've said that the US economy survived perfectly fine before the Fed. I'm not convinced. About five minutes on Wikipedia reveals multiple financial crises before the Fed existed. I think there is some need to control economic factors like the inflation rate and that the Fed currently does so. You have yet to convince me otherwise or to provide an alternate solution for maintaining control of some of these economic factors.
 
So what are those pieces of the puzzle? They are all around us (exploding debts, government insolvency at the federal and state level, more government programs that can't possibly be paid for, expanding military empire, a biased media that doesn't inform the public of the real issues, an education system that is deliberately dumbing the populace down, bailouts for banks that have been run like casinos, Obama carrying out the same policies of Bush immediately after he promised not to, etc...) and buried in the pages of history (Philip Dru: Administrator, The Naked Capitalist, None Dare Call it Conspiracy, Rule by Secrecy, etc...). It's obviously not enough for me to tell you they are there, you have to take it upon yourself to explore on your own.

Buried in the pages of Crackpot History if those are your sources.
You will have to do a lot better then recyling Old,old,John Birch Society
crapola around here.
This crap might go over big with a Glenn Beck audience, but it won't work here.
 
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drkitten is actually a noted expert on that very subject. Go look through the economics sub forum to see how many wrong headed people such as yourself have tramped in here only to have their rear end served to them....as you invariably will here too.

Oh, one of the fun thing about CTers is how they will try to argue with actual experts and make total fools of themselves. The 9/11 Truthers are really good..oh should I say, bad...at this. I could retire if I had a dime for everytime in the JREF conspiacy forums some truther tried to argue about the physics of 9/11 with a Engineer,an Aviation expert, or a actual career firefighter.
 
Buried in the pages of Crackpot History if those are your sources.
You will have to do a lot better then recyling Old,old,John Birch Society
crapola around here.
This crap might go over big with a Glenn Beck audience, but it won't work here.

Actually, it seems to work fine. None of you have addressed any of it nor have your heroes who shill like whores for the Federal Reserve. Meanwhile, your resident Federal Reserve "expert" hasn't been able to make a single quality point in this thread.

You guys can't even debate me. Imagine what G. Edward Griffin would do to you guys.
 
Oh, one of the fun thing about CTers is how they will try to argue with actual experts and make total fools of themselves. The 9/11 Truthers are really good..oh should I say, bad...at this. I could retire if I had a dime for everytime in the JREF conspiacy forums some truther tried to argue about the physics of 9/11 with a Engineer,an Aviation expert, or a actual career firefighter.

Don't look now, but your "experts" have abandoned this thread after having each and every one of their arguments handed back to them.

Care to step in?
 
Don't look now, but your "experts" have abandoned this thread after having each and every one of their arguments handed back to them.

Care to step in?

No they're just bored because you continue to see useful things like "interest" as evil in spite of it being explained to you in detail why it exists. Also you keep saying the Fed crashed the economy. :rolleyes:
 

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