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FED Conspiracy theories

Don't confuse "controlled" inflation with "zero" inflation.

There doesn't really need to be inflation at all. There's no reason the government can't print money and spend it into the economy as seigniorage as the economy grows and expands. The supply of money should match the supply of goods and services. Inflation is just a hidden tax - a wealth transfer from those who get the money last (usually the poor and regular wage-earners) to those who get the money first.

Among other things, what it's done is largely eliminate the scourge of deflation from the economy.

This is inaccurate. The United States is currently facing the prospect of deflation and suffered a period of deflation during the Great Depression.

Since a growing economy requires an expanding money supply, and since a slightly inflationary environment actually increases economic growth (in real terms) because it encourages investment, the Fed has maintained a low target rate of inflation.

They may claim to target low inflation but it doesn't actually happen. Again, the proof is in the pudding. We've had non-stop inflation since 1913, which amounts to nothing but a giant, unending transfer of wealth.

Mild controlled inflation is not bad for the economy. As pointed out above, it's actually good for the economy.

Once again, inflation is nothing more than a hidden tax the people can't easily detect. It's theft, and theft is never good for an economy. A stable currency that people can trust is what's good for the economy.

The effect is to raise interest rates slightly for borrowers (since bankers charge "expected interest plus a premium"), but not high enough to discourage investment since it's still fairly easy to get an ROI above inflation if you can get the investment capital -- and people like providing investment capital when the real return on cash is negative.

The other reason it's done that is because deflation, even mild deflation, is generally a complete disaster for the economy (you need look no further than the Lost Decade in Japan for an example). Since the Fed can't control inflation exactly, it makes more sense to aim for a 2-3% inflation rate. If they miss by 1% in either way, there is no harm done. If the Fed aimed for complete price stability and undershop by a percent, that would create a deflationary environment that would completely stall out the economy.

These policies haven't worked out too well. Again, we've suffered through a non-stop cycle of recessions and depressions. The people no longer save their money. The middle class is shrinking. Wealth and income gaps are growing. Jobs are being exported as well as our manufacturing base. States are going bankrupt. Government programs are insolvent. Uncle Sam is in debt and it can't be repaid.

Our monetary system is an unsustainable Ponzi scheme and it's reaching it's mathematical limits.
 
No, he wasn't. He was just referring to ideas that are later proven to be true. And not even to all of them; many truths are accepted immediately because they're not particularly controversial. If a molecular geneticist published a paper next month suggesting that blue whales are actually a group of several related species that cannot interbreed, I doubt it would be particularly ridiculed.



And how about ideas that are later proven to be false?

They are generally at first denied, laughed at, and mocked.

Then, later on, they're still denied, laughted at, and mocked.

Again, read the quote. He said "truth", not "ideas".

If you guys are having a hard time understanding the English language I can understand why the Fed is such a mystery to you.
 
Right. So its the evil, world dominating financiers aiming for a new world order with banks at the helm.











Not Jews perchance? :duck:

I don't think you understand the system you are criticising, or the alternative model you propose as its replacement. Do you have any evidence for this, and I quote...

Everything has been according to a grand, far-reaching design.

So who exactly are "They"? What exactly do "They", "Want"? What evidence do you present to prove either "They" exist or the "far-reaching design" encompasing multiple financial companies from many separate countries with greater and lesser governmental intervention/oversight/independence not to mention millions of individuals, *gasp* is real?

Is there a handbook?
 
There doesn't really need to be inflation at all. There's no reason the government can't print money and spend it into the economy as seigniorage as the economy grows and expands.

Well, yes. In theory that's more or less what the Fed does, but the Fed also recognizes that if it doesn't manage to match the economic growth exactly then there's likely to be deflation as growth expands faster than the money supply.

... which is why the Fed aims at a small positive inflation. basically, for the same reason that a mountain climber uses a 1000 pound rope to pull up 500 pounds of supplies.

The supply of money should match the supply of goods and services. Inflation is just a hidden tax - a wealth transfer from those who get the money last (usually the poor and regular wage-earners) to those who get the money first.

Actually, to the extent that it's a transfer of wealth, it runs the other way. It benefits debtors at the expense of creditors.

This is inaccurate. The United States is currently facing the prospect of deflation and suffered a period of deflation during the Great Depression.

That's right. Compare that with the fairly regular bouts of deflation we saw during the 19th century.

They may claim to target low inflation but it doesn't actually happen. [/QUTOE]

Riiiiiiiight. When was the last time we saw double-digit inflation again?

Or is this another of those wingnut imaginary versions of inflation that shows up everywhere except in prices?


Again, the proof is in the pudding. We've had non-stop inflation since 1913,

Make up your mind. We've either had non-stop inflation since 1913, in which case we've successfully solved the problem of deflation, or we've had bouts of deflation precisely when the Fed failed to increase the money supply because idiots were worried about too much government spending and enforced a stupid austerity program on the government.

Once again, inflation is nothing more than a hidden tax the people can't easily detect. It's theft, and theft is never good for an economy.

Repeating a wrong statement will not make it correct.
 
I don't think you understand the system you are criticising...

Of course I do. It's a financial Ponzi scheme designed to make it's owners exceedingly wealthy at the expense of the common people.

Just because you aren't capable of conceptualizing this doesn't mean it isn't true.

So who exactly are "They"? What exactly do "They", "Want"? What evidence do you present to prove either "They" exist or the "far-reaching design" encompasing multiple financial companies from many separate countries with greater and lesser governmental intervention/oversight/independence not to mention millions of individuals, *gasp* is real?

Is there a handbook?

As a matter of fact, there is. Two of them, to be exact. Carroll Quigley's Tragedy & Hope and The Anglo-American Establishment. I am almost positive both books can be found online for free in PDF format. You'll find names, organizations, dates, historical events, and other information in both of these books.
 
*sniggers*

I am fully capable of conceptualising insane ideas about how the world works, I have a wife.

But from brief perusal of ze-interwebz, I must conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

If you do, present evidence.
 
Well, yes. In theory that's more or less what the Fed does, but the Fed also recognizes that if it doesn't manage to match the economic growth exactly then there's likely to be deflation as growth expands faster than the money supply.

False again. This nation had nearly zero inflation or deflation from 1789 to 1913 and still managed to enjoy breakneck economic growth. The United States became the most powerful and robust economy in the world without the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies.

... which is why the Fed aims at a small positive inflation. basically, for the same reason that a mountain climber uses a 1000 pound rope to pull up 500 pounds of supplies.

This is a false comparison. The productive people of this country aren't dead-weight supplies needing to be carried up a mountain by the strong rope of inflationary monetary policy.

There's absolutely no evidence in existence to fortify such a claim.

Actually, to the extent that it's a transfer of wealth, it runs the other way. It benefits debtors at the expense of creditors.

Wrong again. New money is loaned at interest, as all money is, and is a benefit to the creditors. Those who receive the money first get the benefit of it's full value and as the money trickles through the economy and dilutes the monetary base it loses value. Those who receive it last - the people - get devalued money.

You're denying basic economic facts.

Compare that with the fairly regular bouts of deflation we saw during the 19th century.

Deflationary environments of the past were successfully combated and corrected without the Federal Reserve.

When was the last time we saw double-digit inflation again?

Why does inflation matter only if it's double-digit?

Or is this another of those wingnut imaginary versions of inflation that shows up everywhere except in prices?

Before the Fed = Most families could be support with a single wage-earner

After the Fed = Most families need two wage-earners

Again, look at the economic record of the United States.

Make up your mind. We've either had non-stop inflation since 1913, in which case we've successfully solved the problem of deflation, or we've had bouts of deflation precisely when the Fed failed to increase the money supply because idiots were worried about too much government spending and enforced a stupid austerity program on the government.

We've had both. Check the record. The point is, we haven't had a stable currency since 1913. Supposedly the Fed was instituted to make our currency more stable, but that hasn't happened and no deflection on your part will change that fact.

Repeating a wrong statement will not make it correct.

Calling a true statement wrong won't make it wrong.
 
From 1789 to 1913, the dollar maintained a nearly constant value, aside from spikes during periods of war. A dollar in 1900 bought nearly the same amount of goods that a dollar in 1800 bought.

But since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, the value of a dollar has plummeted. Last time I checked, you would need 25 2010 dollars to buy the goods and services that a single 1910 dollar bought.

If the Federal Reserve was instituted to control inflation, as you claim, why hasn't it done this? Your post is completely disconnected from reality.

I am far from a financial expert, but everything I have found says that this is untrue. In fact, it appears that the value of the dollar in 1800 was twice the value of the dollar in 1900.
 
But from brief perusal of ze-interwebz, I must conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

If that's the case, why haven't you mounted an argument to establish how and why I don't know what I am talking about?

If you do, present evidence.

The evidence is all around you. All you have to do is wake up and open your eyes. Do a little reading. Conduct some research. Ask yourself the tough questions and be honest with yourself.

For starters, ask yourself this question:

Why must I exchange my hard labor day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, for valueless, paper money that has been printed up out of thin air by people who have an exclusive privilege to do so? How did it come to this and why?

When you seek the answer to this question and find the direction the answer points to, you'll begin to understand for the first time in your life the true nature of the world around you.
 
I am far from a financial expert, but everything I have found says that this is untrue. In fact, it appears that the value of the dollar in 1800 was twice the value of the dollar in 1900.

And for the next 100 years, what's the value of the dollar in 1900 compared to 2000? Was it twice the value or more?
 
This is inaccurate. The United States is currently facing the prospect of deflation and suffered a period of deflation during the Great Depression.
We've had non-stop inflation since 1913 [...]


Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Because contradictions like the above are a fairly sure sign that you, in fact, do not...
 
And for the next 100 years, what's the value of the dollar in 1900 compared to 2000? Was it twice the value or more?

Your claim was that there was no inflation between 1800-1900, yet that does not appear to be true. So now you are moving the goalposts.
 
Check out this CPI graph from 1800 to 2005. Look at the trending of the line starting right around 1913.

http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Documents/dollar/imgs/composite-9.gif

composite-9.gif
 
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Your claim was that there was no inflation between 1800-1900, yet that does not appear to be true. So now you are moving the goalposts.

That's not what I claimed. No need to lie.

I said the dollar maintained a nearly constant value. If you disagree, look at the chart I linked. Aside from the War of 1812 and the "Civil War", the value of the dollar was largely stable.
 
Everyone should also note from the above graph that the supposed "scourge of deflation" is highly overstated. We had numerous brief periods of deflation between 1800 and 1900 and the world never came to an end. The U.S. economy always recovered without the assistance of the Federal Reserve System.
 
First off, I'd like to apologize if I say anything too stupid - economics is not my strong suit. That said...

The two parts in bold are not something I can imagine the world's people would be happy to bring about.

I can see that. That doesn't make any of the claims there true though.

In fact, I have a very hard time believing that, since banks suffer as much as anyone else when nobody has any money. Carry that "detriment to other economic groups" too far and the banks start losing out as well.

The bit about "political control" also seems dubious. The only ways I can think of for any type of bank to actually exert such control are the types of things which are illegal around the world. Responses from various governments would cost any bank that stupid a hideous amount of money.

Another problem with a world government is pretty obvious. In the past, when any government grew oppressive to it's people and become a threat to the nations around it, other governments could organize to fight it and defeat it. Germany during WW2 is a good example of this. In a one-world scenario there can be little chance at the rectification of an oppressive, totalitarian government because there would be no competing governments left to subvert it or support the people fighting it.

One world government isn't very easily workable unless the central government leaves a large part of national affairs to the individual nation-states that comprise it. In short, I think individual pieces of any world government would be powerful enough to pose major problems for a totalitarian government.

All that seems a bit off topic though - let's get back to the Fed...

For starters, ask yourself this question:

Why must I exchange my hard labor day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, for valueless, paper money that has been printed up out of thin air by people who have an exclusive privilege to do so? How did it come to this and why?

... I would rephrase that as, "why am I exchanging my labor for the money that I'm spending on food and various forms of entertainment?"

Basically, I'm not sure where you get "valueless". It certainly doesn't seem that way to me.
 
Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Because contradictions like the above are a fairly sure sign that you, in fact, do not...

My point was, the net trend since 1913 has been inflation (devaluation) of the U.S. dollar.

The graph and other statistics tell no lies.
 
In fact, I have a very hard time believing that, since banks suffer as much as anyone else when nobody has any money. Carry that "detriment to other economic groups" too far and the banks start losing out as well.

Money isn't the primary goal of the banking cartel. For they already have the power to create and destroy as much money as they like through their exclusive operation of the Federal Reserve and other central banks around the world. Bankers have been harvesting fortunes off the interest of their created money for centuries and have so much money they don't even know what to do with it.

What they are after is control. Namely, political control. A manufactured depression may hurt their business in the short run, but if it leads to political events that favor consolidation of the monetary system under singular control, they have gained in the long run. This is why you are seeing increasing calls in the media for a world currency. The World Financial Crisis is an opportunity for them to consolidate power.

The bit about "political control" also seems dubious. The only ways I can think of for any type of bank to actually exert such control are the types of things which are illegal around the world. Responses from various governments would cost any bank that stupid a hideous amount of money.

I'm sure you already understand the role money plays in American "democracy". Think about how much influence lobbyists have over members of Congress. Think about the corruption, the favors, the unfulfilled campaign promises.

Money rules the world, and those who have the most of it make the most rules. This has been the case all throughout history.

One world government isn't very easily workable unless the central government leaves a large part of national affairs to the individual nation-states that comprise it. In short, I think individual pieces of any world government would be powerful enough to pose major problems for a totalitarian government.

You're far more optimistic than I am.


... I would rephrase that as, "why am I exchanging my labor for the money that I'm spending on food and various forms of entertainment?"

Basically, I'm not sure where you get "valueless". It certainly doesn't seem that way to me.

Because in our monetary system, money is essentially printed and loaned into existence without any backing other than government and consumer debt. There's no gold behind it or any other asset. It's simply paper, and the Federal Reserve has the power to print up as much of it as it likes.

When you go to a bank for a loan, the bank doesn't take the money out of somebody else's account. It merely loans it into existence through exponential fractional reserve banking. It creates loan money on the spot. You sign on the dotted line and the bank writes you a check or deposits digital credit into your account. You then have to repay the loan plus interest with the exchange of your labor at a job.

Stop and think about that. You have to work and exchange your labor for money that a bank has the privilege to print into existence. On a $10,000 dollar loan at a fixed 10% interest rate, you pay the bank $1,000 (money which you had to work for) on a loan that was created out of thin air! If you fail to pay the money back, the bank takes your collateral (let's say a car).

Most people don't understand the implications of this system, but in essence, the bank has the power to manufacture money, loan it out, and then collect the interest on something that was printed up.
 
After the Fed = Most families need two wage-earners

Again, look at the economic record of the United States.

Oh, yeah. The creation of the Fed in 1913 was directly responsible for the rise of the two-income family in the 1970s. :rolleyes:

I assume that you're also of the opinion that it was a WWII-era slow poison administered by the OSS that caused the death of General Franco?
 
I would like to ask this thread's participants to watch a series of illuminating videos explaining the true nature of the world financial system from the point-of-view of a former Wall Street banker and Harvard graduate. I have found no other person in my many years of searching that can so plainly illustrate what is happening around the world and why it is so dangerous.

Please watch the first three and then seek the remainder of the series on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37RhdFGVsM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTBkNJ8ZWI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2VDC8UQ3c8&feature=related
 
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