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Fatal mixup at Costco

This is absurd. Even in this highly favorable story the cop's attorney is peddling, I see no reason why the officer should not have been arrested on the spot. Even if you buy the story that the mentally disabled man shoved the officer so hard that it caused him to lose consciousness and thus be justifiable cause to use deadly force, two other people were shot that were not engaged in violence.

At the very least, two counts of criminal negligence occurred. No justification has been offered why the shooting of both parents was not, at the very least, criminal negligence, if not aggravated assault or attempted murder.

You can be sure that if an lawfully armed citizen killed an unarmed man and injured two others he would be arrested on the spot. There is no collateral damage exemption in self-defense scenarios.

Cops truly are first class citizens. Under a similar fact pattern, an ordinary citizen would be starting in a very deep hole and have a long climb out to prove their innocence. Cops circle the wagons and it's the burden of society to prove that their violence isn't justified. Disgusting.
 
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Belz... said:
Were there no other eyewitnesses to this event?
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According to the LA Times article there is a CCTV video of it and the attorney for the family has seen it.

I would attribute a slowness in the family's story coming out to the fact that both parents were in critical condition after being shot. An earlier article had the mother in a coma, and I haven't seen any update on her condition. For a few days, the only story available was the one from the cop that shot three people.

The family has an attorney now, there's mention of a video, and more details are starting to come out. Hopefully we can see some movement on this case now.
 
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Off the meds...

The Washington Post said:
A man fatally shot in a Southern California Costco store was mentally ill and off his medication when he pushed or slapped an off-duty police officer who opened fire and killed the man and critically wounded the man’s parents, the lawyer for the man’s family said Tuesday...

He had been taken off his medication due to other health complications, which may have affected his behavior Friday night, Attorney Dale Galipo said...
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...760894-9229-11e9-956a-88c291ab5c38_story.html
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Article still says that the mother is not conscious and it is unclear whether she will survive.

I stand by my point that, regardless of whether or not the mentally disabled man was attacking with enough intensity to justify deadly force, the shooting of both parents may very well be criminal. The right to self defense does not excuse collateral damage.
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Why? You can't picture a scenario where the parents were trying to hold back their son from attacking the man but were unable. That would put them in extreme close proximity.
 
Stankeye said:
Why? You can't picture a scenario where the parents were trying to hold back their son from attacking the man but were unable. That would put them in extreme close proximity.
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And in the shooter's line of sight, which if he had any semblance of conscience would've compelled him to hold his fire for that reason alone.
 
There is a favorite adage in certain circles that goes, "an armed society is a polite society". To an extent this is true enough; certainly no one is more civil in his comportment than a dead man.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Article still says that the mother is not conscious and it is unclear whether she will survive.

I stand by my point that, regardless of whether or not the mentally disabled man was attacking with enough intensity to justify deadly force, the shooting of both parents may very well be criminal. The right to self defense does not excuse collateral damage.
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He wasn't mentally disabled, he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder, not a disability.
 
arthwollipot said:
He wasn't mentally disabled, he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder, not a disability.
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This is what the original story said:
The 32-year-old man shot and killed by an off-duty police officer in a Costco store on Friday night in Corona was nonverbal and had an intellectual disability, according to a family member.
Kenneth French of Riverside lived with his parents and had the mental capacity of a teenager, said his cousin, Rick Shureih, in a phone interview with the Los Angeles Times on Sunday night.
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https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow...r-intellectual-disability-20190616-story.html
 
arthwollipot said:
The problem is the free exchange of the terms. He may be of low intelligence and schizophrenic, but schizophrenia is itself not a mental impairment.

Sorry, but it does irritate me when people use mental health terms ignorantly.
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Fair enough. Who actually said he's schizophrenic, and on what basis?
 
theprestige said:
Reporter who most certainly knows eff all about mental infirmity reports a secondhand assessment from a layperson, and you think that means what, exactly?
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The layperson is a relative who actually knew the victim and his family, and who presumably at some point asked "What's wrong with him?" He might be wrong, but he's not just a random guy. And what makes you think a reporter can't know or learn at least as much as you do about "mental infirmity?"
 
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arthwollipot said:
He wasn't mentally disabled, he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder, not a disability.
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I dunno. Wouldn't being psychotic be a disability, if a disability is defined as something that interferes with ordinary daily life as most people experience it?
 
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arthwollipot said:
The problem is the free exchange of the terms. He may be of low intelligence and schizophrenic, but schizophrenia is itself not a mental impairment.

Sorry, but it does irritate me when people use mental health terms ignorantly.
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It was also reported that he was "nonverbal". Is that not a disability?
 
Bob001 said:
I dunno. Wouldn't being psychotic be a disability, if a disability is defined as something that interferes with ordinary daily life as most people experience it?
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Psychosis is the state of being unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality. It is a symptom of a number of mental disorders, including schizophrenia, but on its own a symptom cannot be a disability.

The relationship between mental illness and disability is extremely complex, actually, and there are many who would argue that yes, a chronic mental disorder such as schizophrenia should be regarded as a disability, but there are others, including myself, who argue with equal vehemence that as long as they stick to an effective treatment programme, people with schizophrenia can live more or less unimpaired lives.
 
Bob001 said:
Fair enough. Who actually said he's schizophrenic, and on what basis?
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The Washington Post did. Though on a re-read I note that it is not actually as clear as I initially thought.

French, 32, of Riverside, lived with his parents and family members believe he suffered from schizophrenia, Galipo said. He had been taken off his medication due to other health complications, which may have affected his behavior Friday night, Galipo said.
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Family members believe he suffered from schizophrenia. If he didn't have a formal diagnosis, we can't really trust what family members think.
 
Puppycow said:
It was also reported that he was "nonverbal". Is that not a disability?
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Again, "nonverbal" is a symptom, not a diagnosis. Whatever diagnosis he did have - if he had any, see above - may be considered a disability, depending on who is doing the defining and for what purpose. From what I can tell with limited information, it's possible that he suffered from a number of separate mental disorders.
 
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