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Fascinating Article About Octopuses

coalesce

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coalesce
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Mar 10, 2003
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Of all places, I found this article link in a Cracked.com article about weird places animals have been found. The author brings up some excellent theories about why the octopus evolved the way it did and how, a lot like us, uses it intelligence to make up for a lack of a shell (or, in our case, claws and fangs.) It's a great read.

http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/6474

Michael
 
coalesce said:
Of all places, I found this article link in a Cracked.com article about weird places animals have been found. The author brings up some excellent theories about why the octopus evolved the way it did and how, a lot like us, uses it intelligence to make up for a lack of a shell (or, in our case, claws and fangs.) It's a great read.

http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/6474

Michael
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Indeed a fascinating read. I recall seeing experiments done where an octopus shows signs of recognizing symbols to know where food is.

ETA - The cuttlefish, a relative of the octopus, is also a fascinating creature.

Octopus Learns to Recognize Symbols
 
coalesce said:
That's what I initially thought, but my Oxford American Dictionary said it was "octopuses" and there was no entry for "octopi."

Go figure...

Michael
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If we followed the Greek noun from where we get the name (pous = foot, plural, podes), the proper plural would be "OCTOPODES". We don't follow the Greek, so I believe octopuses is quite acceptable. "Octopi" is clearly wrong.
 
It's a very interesting article, though I haven't finished it yet. Did want to mention that back around 1959 or 60 I read a similar, if less thorough, article in Popular Science magazine, which made me a big fan of the octopus. I think PS is archived on the net now, so if I have time I'll see if I can find it. Some of the unusual abilities of the octopus have been known for a while, anyway.

OK, time out for a moment. I found the article, which should come up here:

The Octopus: Nature's Phony.

Edit to add: That article uses the plural "octopuses," which is actually correct, according to the OED. The root word is Greek, not Roman, its proper plural "octopodes," anglicised to "octopuses." There is no "octopus" at all in Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary. If' there's no Latin singular a Latin plural is spurious. Further edit on this point: this was an old family bugaboo, I think, the false assumption of roots. As a joke, among other things, my parents referred to the plural of facial tissues as "kleenices."
 
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anor277 said:
If we followed the Greek noun from where we get the name (pous = foot, plural, podes), the proper plural would be "OCTOPODES". We don't follow the Greek, so I believe octopuses is quite acceptable. "Octopi" is clearly wrong.
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Four out of four of my dictionaries list "octopuses" as a valid plural. Three out of four list "octopi" as a valid plural. None list octopodes, although I've heard that the OED mentions all three.

Octopi is no more wrong than the word television. This is English, not Greek or Latin, so we're free to mix Greek and Latin roots and whatnot. And yes, even use Latin rules to pluralize a word derived from Greek (but now officially part of English).

If you wanted a language that was logical or made sense, you probably should have arranged to be born to computers, rather than people. :)
 
xtifr said:
Four out of four of my dictionaries list "octopuses" as a valid plural. Three out of four list "octopi" as a valid plural. None list octopodes, although I've heard that the OED mentions all three.

Octopi is no more wrong than the word television. This is English, not Greek or Latin, so we're free to mix Greek and Latin roots and whatnot. And yes, even use Latin rules to pluralize a word derived from Greek (but now officially part of English).

If you wanted a language that was logical or made sense, you probably should have arranged to be born to computers, rather than people. :)
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This is English? Thank you, I'd clean forgotten.

Good English usage generally requires that we do not mix Latin stems with Greek prefixes, or vice versa (of course, there are many exceptions to this rule, for instance, we should say uninuclear rather than mononuclear, but such terms are hallowed by usage). In the sciences, most of us should strive for correct usage.

I made the comment above in the hope that it would prove interesting rather than exasperating. Evidently, I was wrong. Certainly, I would not prescribe usage. Feel free to use 'octopi'.
 
Actually, I think good English does require us to say it however we damn well please. It's arguably the biggest strength of the language.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Actually, I think good English does require us to say it however we damn well please. It's arguably the biggest strength of the language.
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I think it's true that we may say things as we please, as long as we communicate, but it's also true, I think, that there are better and worse ways to do so. Legality does not always become style, and where a long standing anglicized option exists, insisting on obsolete roots smacks of snobbery, mixed roots more so.
 
bruto said:
I think it's true that we may say things as we please, as long as we communicate, but it's also true, I think, that there are better and worse ways to do so. Legality does not always become style, and where a long standing anglicized option exists, insisting on obsolete roots smacks of snobbery, mixed roots more so.
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The thing is that "octopuses" and "octopi" are both long-standing, widely-used options, although formal language tends to prefer "octopuses". (So, if anything, "octopi" is the less snobby, more tongue-in-cheek option.)

As far as "mixed roots" go, the word was actually borrowed into Latin before it came to English. English isn't the only language willing to steal terms. So there's good, historical reason for "octopi".

Anyway, we should probably get back to discussing the creatures instead of the terms used to describe them. Octopodesesi are definitely cool and surprisingly intelligent critters.
 
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