Fall US Elections

[jimbob]

... Whether one is born advantaged or disadvantaged is the greatest predictor of success. ... Why can't, in the very least, the govt can be somewhat paternalistic when it comes to the children of poor people?

Why can't material objects levitate? After all, each molecule vibrates and if all the molecules in the salt shaker on your dinner table vibrated the same direction, the salt shaker could fly around the room. Consider the VA, where employees fabricated treatment statistics to generate bonuses. Consider urban schools which spend $15,000 + per student-year to generate angry illiterate dropouts. Consider the perennial reports of systematic test fraud by teachers and administrators.
The government cannot serve as the agent of the goals you proclaim.
Government employees differ systematically from the rest of us only in their access to the tools of organized violence.

As an aside, I read a report years ago that there is a stronger correlation between early school success and later family income than between early school success and current family income. That is, school success depends on the parent attributes that create high family income AND school success. The parents who make wise educational decisions ALSO make wise financial decisions. Both pay off later. The contribution that material resources devoted to children makes to their career success pales in comparison to the contributions that genetics, parent attention, and student motivation make to a child's life trajectory.

That analogy fails because the state can be somewhat paternalistic. "The Communist Kingdom of Sweden" and other wealthy countries do provide significant support for their poorest including educational support, and as a consequence these countries have higher social mobility than either the US or the UK.

ETA: But I guess you know that RandFan was using standard English to rhetorically ask for a reason why it should not act in a paternalistic manner not why it wasn't possible to.

 

[The_Animus]

That analogy fails because the state can be somewhat paternalistic. "The Communist Kingdom of Sweden" and other wealthy countries do provide significant support for their poorest including educational support, and as a consequence these countries have higher social mobility than either the US or the UK.

And higher happiness, and good healthcare, consistently.

 

[jimbob]

And higher happiness, and good healthcare, consistently.

And less spent on healthcare in taxes, often - see my sig.

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

That analogy fails because the state can be somewhat paternalistic. "The Communist Kingdom of Sweden" and other wealthy countries do provide significant support for their poorest including educational support ...

As does the US, which regularly outspends every other country on Earth (except, sometimes, Switzerland), so what does money accomplish?

... and as a consequence these countries have higher social mobility than either the US or the UK.

Do you contend that US taxpayers spend less, per person in poverty, than do Swedish taxpayers? Has social mobility in the US increased or decreased since the imposition of FDR's expansion of Federal entitlements or since LBJ's Great Society?

But I guess you know that RandFan was using standard English to rhetorically ask for a reason why it should not act in a paternalistic manner not why it wasn't possible to.

Governments should not waste resources on impossible tasks.
If Swedish bureaucrats are angels, transfer of Swedish policies to corrupt (see, Veterans' Affairs, GSA, Atlanta public schools) US bureaucrats will not yield comparable results. If Swedish health care bureaucrats and British NHS bureaucrats are normal humans like US bureaucrats, why should I trust their stats any more than I trust VA stats?

 

[Foolmewunz]

So here is what the electoral map looks like at the moment. It looks like the GOP is letting Brownbackistan slip through their grasp as a result of its governor's horribly failed policies - if we are lucky that Senate seat will go blue.

Ooh, look! I feel like a Bigfooter with my first sighting! An actual post about the "Fall US Elections". What a find!

Seriously... why did this thread become a discussion of catchall political philosophies?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

An interesting bit floated across the google news feed - Jason Carter, grandson of President Carter, is looking to move up the foodchain from Georgia state senator to governor. I thought that was interesting.

On a totally unrelated note, I've discovered the flip side of national no-call lists: the "call this idiot, he'll answer dumb surveys" list. I get called about twice a month on average.

 

[The Don]

Has social mobility in the US increased or decreased since the imposition of FDR's expansion of Federal entitlements or since LBJ's Great Society?

Well a recent study, widely reported has concluded that social mobility is largely unchanged over the last 50 years but the consequences of a lack of social mobility are greater today than they were 50 years ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...45db4a-83a2-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html
http://www.economist.com/news/unite...obile-it-was-generation-ago-mobility-measured

This report on the other hand concludes that social mobility rose between 1950 and 1980 but has dropped significantly since then:

http://www.chicagofed.org/digital_assets/publications/working_papers/2005/wp2005_12.pdf

 

[jj]

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/...-black-democrats-at-wisconsin-polling-places/

Yep, armed people trying to prevent voting of their opponents. Remind you of any other kind of news you heard?

 

[Ladewig]

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/...-black-democrats-at-wisconsin-polling-places/

Yep, armed people trying to prevent voting of their opponents. Remind you of any other kind of news you heard?

Yes.

It reminds me of those Operation American Spring stories in which millions of armed Americans were going to show up and tens of unarmed Americans showed up instead.

Don't get me wrong. Armed intimidation of voters is a serious crime and I expect the US Justice Department to prosecute such criminals to the full extent of the law. But a bunch of goofballs taunting people on Facebook is hardly a sign that violence is heading toward us like a freight train. I'd like to live in a country in which idiots like those don't act like trolls in social media, but that is the nature of the internet in 2014.

 

[jj]

Yes.

It reminds me of those Operation American Spring stories in which millions of armed Americans were going to show up and tens of unarmed Americans showed up instead.

Don't get me wrong. Armed intimidation of voters is a serious crime and I expect the US Justice Department to prosecute such criminals to the full extent of the law. But a bunch of goofballs taunting people on Facebook is hardly a sign that violence is heading toward us like a freight train. I'd like to live in a country in which idiots like those don't act like trolls in social media, but that is the nature of the internet in 2014.

Do you think it might intimidate voters who are already afraid of the police, the army, and the feds?

 

[Cain]

*snort*

I guess you're not counting the ones who compare social welfare programs to feeding stray animals, or who suggest sterilizing poor women.

I just had a genius idea (I'm not too excited because it happens all the time). First step: abolish food stamps. They're b.s.; people sell them, so they can buy drugs, or use them to buy Doritos. Second step: what if we fed stray animals to the "poor"?

 

[Ladewig]

Do you think it might intimidate voters who are already afraid of the police, the army, and the feds?

I understand that there are voters afraid of local police.

How many are afraid that the US Army would side withe armed thugs who were breaking the law? How many are afraid of US Marshals?

.........

Even if the answer is a great number, I doubt that anything can be done to stop the bigoted folks from threatening to carry guns on Election Day.

 

[Ladewig]

I just had a genius idea (I'm not too excited because it happens all the time). First step: abolish food stamps. They're b.s.; people sell them, so they can buy drugs, or use them to buy Doritos. Second step: what if we fed stray animals to the "poor"?

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/7YzG4V0.gif[/qimg]

Or.

Or we could feed the poor to stray animals.

.........

Does anyone else want to play the post-silly-ideas-to-see-who-takes-them-seriously game?

 

[DDWW]

Ooh, look! I feel like a Bigfooter with my first sighting! An actual post about the "Fall US Elections". What a find!

Seriously... why did this thread become a discussion of catchall political philosophies?

So some folks could show off their big brains!

 

[Cain]

Or.

Or we could feed the poor to stray animals.

Well-intentioned but ultimately unworkable.

 

[jj]

I
How many are afraid that the US Army would side withe armed thugs who were breaking the law? How many are afraid of US Marshals?

Well, your experience may be different than mine, but mine suggests that there are quite some people who would expect that, having been beat both down and up for a generation.

 

[Mike!]

Well-intentioned but ultimately unworkable.

Why, aren't the animals hungry enough?

 

[Ladewig]

Well, your experience may be different than mine, but mine suggests that there are quite some people who would expect that, having been beat both down and up for a generation.

Then I guess the only solution is to have other voters provide a protective escort to help these people get to the polls.

 

[Foolmewunz]

The biggest screw-up award, sadly (because I'm partisan) goes to the Dems, or specifically the Dem candidate in Alaska, sitting Sen. Mark Bergich. A tasteless hit piece of an ad that completely backfired. With six weeks to go and the furor subsiding, it'll be interesting to see the next recognizable polls there, but he took a big hit in the crap polls that are run in Alaska (PPP, NYT, Rasmussen - all with very bad track records, particularly in that state, where people tend to like to confound pollsters).

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

... Many conservatives are soulless Ayn Rand-worshipping ...

False. Rand fans are hardly conservative. She called her philosophy "Objectivism". There's not a lot of daylight between Rand's acolytes and the typical libertarian.

... plutocrats ...

Please elaborate. Can you provide a few examples of wealthy Rand devotees? With some digging I expect I could find a few wealthy self-described Hayek and Mises fans. There was some Hong Kong shipping company billionaire a few years ago who said Mises' Human Action inspired him as a youth.