Fake Ron Paul Currency seized

[JEROME DA GNOME]

No, fraud is using BS language to convince someone that $15 worth of silver is worth $20 then only offering $15 to by it back if challenged as to the "worth" of the "currency". The language in the FAQ basically exposes Liberty dollars as the fraud they are.

You are thinking that dollars equate to Federal Reserve notes.

The Federal reserve note is not the standard by which one should measure.

One should measure value by the purchasing power of the currency.

By your argument, the Fed is committing fraud when they issue more Fed currency into the market at a rate less than the increase of good and services because that devalues the Fed dollars pre-influx of new Fed currency.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

How much does it cost to mint a Liberty Dollar? I assume it is relatively cheap, but the cost does have to be accounted for.

Only being willing to redeem them for $15.00 seems to make the case for the Feds.

Value is determined by the choice of two free individuals in their exchange.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Yes I know what a dollar is and I'm using $ because it's the accepted shorthand for dollar. Now are you going to adress the point ot not? How is it not fraud to claim that 15$ worth of silver is worth 20$?

Because the silver currently being worth in exchange today for 15 Federal Reserve notes has little to do with the exchange value between two free people.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Value is determined by the choice of two free individuals in their exchange.

Maybe if 'the drop' mentioned it's only $15 of silver it would be the choice of two free individuals in their exchange if the 'dropper' wanted $20 for it, but absent that information, it's fraud, since the 'dropper' says the coin is 'valued' at $20, implying the coin is valued by some standard other than that's just what the 'dropper' wants to get for it.

 

[gtc]

The truthers at 911 oz are tying this into the Amero conspiracy. Apparently both are the work of the evil NWO.

Unfortunately, they can't work out why there are 13 stars on the Liberty dollar.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Unfortunately, they can't work out why there are 13 stars on the Liberty dollar.

Really?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Maybe if 'the drop' mentioned it's only $15 of silver it would be the choice of two free individuals in their exchange if the 'dropper' wanted $20 for it, but absent that information, it's fraud, since the 'dropper' says the coin is 'valued' at $20, implying the coin is valued by some standard other than that's just what the 'dropper' wants to get for it.

Free exchange is not tied to the Federal Reserve note.

Do you think that a value on a trade of a Euro for a Yen is restricted by the value of the Federal Reserve note?

People trade currency all the time based on many factors including that they think the currency they are trading for will be able to exchange for more goods tomorrow.

Remember the true value of a currency is the amount of goods it can purchase.

When you see the word dollar or the symbol $, this does not only denote Federal Reserve note.

 

[Kerberos]

Free exchange is not tied to the Federal Reserve note.

Do you think that a value on a trade of a Euro for a Yen is restricted by the value of the Federal Reserve note?

People trade currency all the time based on many factors including that they think the currency they are trading for will be able to exchange for more goods tomorrow.

Remember the true value of a currency is the amount of goods it can purchase.

When you see the word dollar or the symbol $, this does not only denote Federal Reserve note.

Yes it does, at least in this context and of cause it would be fraud if I handed over Euros in a shop claiming each was worth 2 dollars.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

You are thinking that dollars equate to Federal Reserve notes.

The Federal reserve note is not the standard by which one should measure.

One should measure value by the purchasing power of the currency.

By your argument, the Fed is committing fraud when they issue more Fed currency into the market at a rate less than the increase of good and services because that devalues the Fed dollars pre-influx of new Fed currency.

Try telling your grocer, gas station owner or telephone compay that you will pay them $15 for $20 worth of good or services and see how far this argument gets you.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Yes it does, at least in this context and of cause it would be fraud if I handed over Euros in a shop claiming each was worth 2 dollars.

It would not be fraud if you handed over 2 loonies and claimed it was worth 2 dollars.

Now, claiming it is worth 2 Federal Reserve notes would be fraud.

 

[Kerberos]

It would not be fraud if you handed over 2 loonies and claimed it was worth 2 dollars.

Now, claiming it is worth 2 Federal Reserve notes would be fraud.

Where on Earth have you gotten the hair-brained notion that US dollars are somehow different from federal reserve notes?

I suggest you put your ideas on fraud into action and see how the court reacts.

 

[dudalb]

Jerome reminds me of that a main reason I am not a Libertarian is there tendacy to go off into La La Land frequently.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

It would not be fraud if you handed over 2 loonies and claimed it was worth 2 dollars.

Now, claiming it is worth 2 Federal Reserve notes would be fraud.

Claiming two Canadian dollars are worth two U.S. dollars would be fraud - and pretty silly given current exchange rates. Claiming two U.S. dollars are worth two U.S. dollars is simply stating reality.

This, however, clearly is an attempt to defruad people:

Not very carefully it appears.

"5. "Do the Drop!" The best way to introduce the Liberty Dollar is to drop the Silver Liberty in someone's hand. Do not hand it to the cashier, Drop it! Hold a one-ounce Silver Liberty a couple inches above the outreached palm and drop it so it lands flat in the person's palm.

6. Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says TWENTY DOLLARS. When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, one ounce of silver PRIVATE currency valued at 20 dollars." Do not rush. Just stand there and wait, patiently. No need to smile. Just wait. "

How is that not fraud?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Where on Earth have you gotten the hair-brained notion that US dollars are somehow different from federal reserve notes?

I suggest you put your ideas on fraud into action and see how the court reacts.

I did not notice that the coins or paper was printed with "US Dollar" on them.

A Federal Reserve note is a specific currency.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Jerome reminds me of that a main reason I am not a Libertarian is there tendacy to go off into La La Land frequently.

Dudald reminds me of the main reason I do not allow myself to disengage my thinking ability.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

This, however, clearly is an attempt to defruad people:

This is presenting the currency for examination and allowing the vendor to choose if they will accept as payment.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

This is presenting the currency for examination and allowing the vendor to choose if they will accept as payment.

And then lying to them in order to get them to accept $15 worth of silver as being worth $20.

When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, one ounce of silver PRIVATE currency valued at 20 dollars."

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

And then lying to them in order to get them to accept $15 worth of silver as being worth $20.

Uggh, dollars does not denote Federal reserve currency!

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Uggh, dollars does not denote Federal reserve currency!

Which excuses the fraud they are perpetrating how?

And every note I've seen says dollar right on the front.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Which excuses the fraud they are perpetrating how?

Not fraud.

Unless you are also accusing the Canadians of printing fraudulent dollars as well.