Fake or Real...you decide

[Mycroft]

How anyone would prove that is beyond me...

It would explain the discrepancy in the time stamps on the photographs. One of them was hours earlier than the photographs where "green helmet guy" was pulling a girl's body from the rubble, but it showed the girl already loaded into the ambulance. Now we know that wasn't really an ambulance but refrigeration truck for the city morgue where he works.

 

[Mycroft]

Its funny how the entire worlds supply of Israeli apologists and warmongers blogs have all become conspiracy theory sites overnight when its the only alternative to having to swallow what is coming out of lebanon.

The alternative is to have to swallow what? That Hezbollah fires its weapons from civilian areas virtually guaranteeing that civilians get hurt or killed in large numbers?

That is an ugly truth but it’s not at all hard to swallow.

 

[The Fool]

It would explain the discrepancy in the time stamps on the photographs. One of them was hours earlier than the photographs where "green helmet guy" was pulling a girl's body from the rubble, but it showed the girl already loaded into the ambulance. Now we know that wasn't really an ambulance but refrigeration truck for the city morgue where he works.

The timestamps are irrelevant Do you believe the "timestamp" is when the image is claimed to be taken?

As with most conspiracy theorists the facts don't get in the way of imagination. These "timestamps" have proven invaluable in allowing people to spin vast webs of conspiracy.....fun, isn't it.

 

[Mycroft]

The timestamps are irrelevant Do you believe the "timestamp" is when the image is claimed to be taken?

That is what I believe, yes. Now if you have information to the contrary why don't you run along and get it?

As with most conspiracy theorists the facts don't get in the way of imagination. These "timestamps" have proven invaluable in allowing people to spin vast webs of conspiracy.....fun, isn't it.

As near as I can tell your entire argument amounts to you squawking "conspiracy!" at everyone who says something you disagree with.

Do you have any actual facts? Can you debunk this "conspiracy theory"? No? I didn't think so.

 

[rockoon]

I missed the evidence on that one, can you point me?
thanks

I don't like pointing.

Its often considered rude.

Besides, someone might take a picture of my index finger and then photoshop it into a finger with a different meaning.

 

[webfusion]

why not web? Thats exactly what you have been providing so far.

This sidetrack of Qana in this thread only happened because Mr Hajj has been caught lying and distorting the images he provides, and he was a primary supplier of images at Qana, so there is a direct and non-circumstantial connection.

No conspiracy. Fact. Hajj is debunked.

Apollyon offered a comment about Qana, after Ryan Roberts made reference to it, in Post # 47

I picked up on that, and revealed a basic item related to Qana. Quite a few people on this planet were wondering who Green Helmet Guy is. I noticed the answer, and provided it. You're welcome.

The question as a skeptic, which everyone really should have asked --- was the refrigerated morgue truck Abu Shadi Jradi drove from Tyre that morning actually empty?

Probably nobody can prove it web...but its not going to stop you from believing it and giving the conspiracy theory a real good run on this site.

Now, mine is a perfectly legitimate question.
If someone was to take the trouble to actually investigate it, and compare the names on the HRW list, with the death records of the Tyre morgue over the preceeding days before the attack at Qana, and see no duplication, that would be at least something we could point to and say --- "debunked"

But no journalists have done so, because that's a lot of real work.

Better to sit at their computers, typing bogus photo captions and playing photoshop games.

When the news is intolerable then just close your eyes and chant....It neeeeeever happened it neeeeeeever happened. Its aaaaaal a conspiracy.

The news is not intolerable.
I'm actually enjoying seeing Hezbollah getting the sh|T kicked out of them.

 

[The Fool]

That is what I believe, yes. Now if you have information to the contrary why don't you run along and get it?

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/08/01/ap2920008.html

The AP said information from its photo editors showed the events were not staged, and that the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken. An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.

<snip>

There are also several reasons not to draw conclusions from time stamps, Lyon said. Following a news event like this, the AP does not distribute pictures sequentially; photos are moved based on news value and how quickly they are available for an editor to transmit.

The AP indicates to its members when they are sent on the wire, and member Web sites sometimes use a different time stamp to show when they are posted.


But don't let this stop you from repeating the timestamps conspiracy theory, after all, AP and reuters are in on the conspiracy .....

As near as I can tell your entire argument amounts to you squawking "conspiracy!" at everyone who says something you disagree with.

Do you have any actual facts? Can you debunk this "conspiracy theory"? No? I didn't think so.

No son, the responses have consisted of simple alternatives to your fancy and convoluted conspiracy theories along with information that debunks things you clutch onto (timestamps)...I can understand how you squirm about having your conspiracy theories described as such....I'd be embarrassed too.

web has seen some photoshopped images, decided that the photographer did it (new fact created)....and decided that his newly created fact now means that all other images by the same photographer are "debunked"... Now thats handy....

but anyway...web still holds to the theory that a conspiracy of lebanese civil defense workers and western journalists are trucking refrigerated bodies around lebanon for photo oportunities. all done under cloaks of invisibility? Not one journalist interested in spilling the story?? They must be damn good, like all those people who are keeping the lid on the 911 conspiracies.

Are you stilll with web on the refrigerated bodies or are you limiting yourself to the already explained timestamps?

in veeeeeever happened.....its aaaaaaal a conspiracy against the forces of good....it neeeeever happened.

 

[RyanRoberts]

Decided that the photographer did it

The photographer has confessed to doing it - Here

"The photographer has denied deliberately attempting to manipulate the image, saying that he was trying to remove dust marks and that he made mistakes due to the bad lighting conditions he was working under," said Moira Whittle, the head of public relations for Reuters.

Obviously, the clone brush is the ideal tool for such a task.

The timestamps may have been 'explained', but they have still not made available the EXIF data that would stop the moaning.

Talking of timestamps being arbitary, there's a woman who appears in two photographs credited to recent destruction of her home that are over 2 weeks apart, thats some bad luck.

 

[The Fool]

Obviously, the clone brush is the ideal tool for such a task.

My apologies to web, I will give myself an uppercut. Was this guy trying to fake an event? was that city actually bombed?

The timestamps may have been 'explained', but they have still not made available the EXIF data that would stop the moaning.

What is the difference between explained and 'explained'. Is that where it is explained but then you can think of something else that you can doubt? Why have all the newsagencies refused to release EXIF data of 911 photos? Mainly because they don't bother with conspiracy theorists? But anyway....this "secret EXIF" data sound promising.

Talking of timestamps being arbitary, there's a woman who appears in two photographs credited to recent destruction of her home that are over 2 weeks apart, thats some bad luck.

So does this add to the case that the timestamps are rubbish or adds to the case that the conspiracy stages this same woman in front of multiple bombed buildings?

 

[RyanRoberts]

Was this guy trying to fake an event

No, he was trying to get his picture used by upping the sensationalism. Reuters then demonstrate serious incompetence in not catching the obvious fake, throwing doubt on their self professed editorial standards. Sensational photographs of Lebanse casualties play into the hands of Hizbollah, but leaping to the conclusion that the Reuters or the photographer is colluding with them would be irrational. Because of this sensitivity, it is all the more important that Reuters is a genuinely honest broker of images and news.

refused to release

Some places publish it. This event has thrown doubt on both the integrity of one the photographers involved and the competence of their photo editors - that is a damn good reason to make the files available. I'd be happy with the RAW images and timestamps, others may apply the usual CT logic to infer that a negative result implies a cover up if the timestamps demonstrated that the pictures were taken over a much shorter period and a less scandalous order.

Adds to the case

It adds to the case that at least that one photographer has very few scruples when it comes to misrepresenting events to get his pictures published and that Reuters' editorial process is insufficient to catch even obvious fraud.

 

[Mycroft]

The AP indicates to its members when they are sent on the wire, and member Web sites sometimes use a different time stamp to show when they are posted.

So Forbes suggests that possibly, maybe, but they don't know for sure there might be a different explanation for the time stamp discrepency and that's all it takes for you to say "case closed"?

 

[zenith-nadir]

The photographer has confessed to doing it - Here

"....and that he made mistakes due to the bad lighting conditions he was working under"...

That is the weakest excuse I have ever heard in my life.

The guy fakes smoke to make his picture look more sensational, Reuters ran with the image eventhough anyone who uses photoshop can spot the poorly-done clone tool work in the image immediately....and now the claim - by the photographer - is "mistakes due to the bad lighting conditions he was working under"....

Which "bad lighting conditions" take place in broad daylight? I am curious.

 

[RyanRoberts]

Which bad lighting conditions

Well, all that black smoke from the Zionist death machine was blotting out the sun, obviously..

If you look at the photograph that replaced it with a near identical scene, you will see that the doctored picture had in fact been darkened.

 

[Earthborn]

Which "bad lighting conditions" take place in broad daylight? I am curious.

Glare of the sun on his computer monitor, is my guess. Makes more sense than to assume he tried to alter the image when it was dark, because that would have made seeing what's on his screen easier.

How he could have thought it was a good idea to clone tool a few smuches away when he couldn't see what he was doing is anyone's guess.

 

[Elind]

When the news is intollerable then just close your eyes and chant....It neeeeeever happened it neeeeeeever happened. Its aaaaaal a conspiracy.

Come on Fool, it's a perfectly well recognized propaganda ploy to plant bodies and inflate counts. The latter we now know happened at Qana. The former we don't know, but implausible it is not.

There was a well documented case by the Palestinians some years ago, although I have forgotten the date, when there had been a "massacre" by Israel. There were many funeral processions ongoing and a spy drone was filming when a body was accidentally dropped and promptly got up and ran away, as did the mourners.

 

[Elind]

but anyway...web still holds to the theory that a conspiracy of lebanese civil defense workers and western journalists are trucking refrigerated bodies around lebanon for photo oportunities. all done under cloaks of invisibility? Not one journalist interested in spilling the story?? They must be damn good, like all those people who are keeping the lid on the 911 conspiracies.

Journalists are not travelling around in refrigerated trucks; they are allowed in under heavy escort when it suits Hizbullah, as you would know if you read any of the journalist accounts of such visits, some quoted here.

You are off base entirely to compare this speculation with 911 conspiracies. It is clear that there is motive, opportunity and willingness to mislead journalists, who themselves will admit as much.

Can you explain how a simple body count from one very specific location can be gotten so wrong? Something like "the lighting was poor" perhaps?

 

[The Fool]

Journalists are not travelling around in refrigerated trucks; they are allowed in under heavy escort when it suits Hizbullah, as you would know if you read any of the journalist accounts of such visits, some quoted here.

and also from the statements of journalists that I have posted here that refute this claim that hezbollah heavily escorts all the journalists that swarm all over the place....there must be a vast proportion of surviving hezbollah people assigned to following journalists?

You are off base entirely to compare this speculation with 911 conspiracies. It is clear that there is motive, opportunity and willingness to mislead journalists, who themselves will admit as much.

why? Take some pictures and weave a story...what is the difference? The funny thing is that these stories always originate from spotty nerds running blogs after looking at some pics and deciding what actually happened and not from the people on the spot....wonder why ?

Can you explain how a simple body count from one very specific location can be gotten so wrong? Something like "the lighting was poor" perhaps?

Where is the incorrect body count? The initial estimation of casualties was based on the numbers thought to be in there and the numbers known to be accounted for it was not based on a count of recovered bodies........when I was watching 911 unfold the estimates initially were around 10,000 from memory. How could they get such a simple thing wrong?

 

[Snide]

Well, Tragic. You and a few others are official members of the "I'll believe anything" club.

Well, A_U_P's arch enemy LGF does it yet again. Brings the fraud to light.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

Geez...for simple asking questions, you'll slap on that label. I guess that qualifies you for the "I'll ignore any middle ground" club then?

 

[Apollyon]

The Green Helmet Guy has been identified.

He is a mortician, named Abu Shadi Jradi and he drives a refrigerated truck used for transporting corpses from place to place.

The question which never was answered --- did he drive an empty truck that morning when he arrived in Qana?

There's another question as well - Do refrigerated morgue trucks have windows? Since green helmet guy was handling that dead girl, why would she be placed in an ambulance with a window instead of in a body bag in the refrigerated truck?

Also, blogs are turning up a LOT of discrepancies by looking through old Hajj photos. What a propaganda wielding scumbag that guy was.

 

[BPSCG]

Suffice it to say, Abu Shadi Jradi is a professional, and his presence in Qana (and Tyre) is well within the proper boundries of his work, and I have seen nothing to indicate he did anything wrong. (Although by googling his name, you'll see some dubious information and some outrageous accusations on the various blogs)

If it can be conclusively shown that he drove 20 or so bodies in his refrigerated truck from Tyre, and added them to the pile at Qana, then you'll have a real bombshell.

How anyone would prove that is beyond me...

Interesting tidbit from the story about the Reuters freelance photographer:

He was among several photographers from the main international news agencies whose images of a dead child being held up by a rescuer in the village of Qana, south Lebanon, after an Israeli air strike on July 30 have been challenged by blogs critical of the mainstream media's coverage of the Middle East conflict.

A photographer fired by Reuters for committing outright fraud is the same photographer who took suspicious pictures of Green Helmet Guy.

I know someone's going to yell "CT!" at me...