Faith Healers - could it be hypnotism?

[A Christian Sceptic]

I know, I know, I'm taking the bait ...

No, no. You're not moving on. You're pretending that your claim can stand. Is there any evidence that hypnotism works as claims? Your anecdote is not proof.

Are you even reading this thread?

I haven't made any claims, especially about whether "hypnotism works as claims".

 

[Robin]

I would agree with you. Faith healing and stage hypnosis are very similar. They both use the power of suggestion.

Has anybody here been a volunteer for a stage hypnotist? My dad once was, and he said that the "hypnotist" said straight out "Look, we are going to put on a good show for the people here, anybody got a problem with that?". One person was shocked and disillusioned and left straight away and demanded his money back. The rest just played along and pretended to be hypnotised.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I know, I know, I'm taking the bait ...



Are you even reading this thread?

I haven't made any claims, especially about whether "hypnotism works as claims".

The description of your wife's experience is inconsistent with reality. Your wife is either a liar or deluded. If you maintain that your story is accurate, I invite you to supply evidence. Until such time, I can confidently say it didn't happen as you describe.

 

[A Christian Sceptic]

Here's a whole chewy thread for starters:


Lots of good stuff about hypnosis.

That was chewy! Thanks.

 

[Zep]

Note that this same phenomenon occurs with a variety of "marital arts" types who promote the idea of "one-touch knockouts".

Just jumping back here for a possible one-liner...

MARITAL arts?

I mean...is this the time and place??

 

[UserGoogol]

The problem with the anecdotes after the fact is that they could easily be part of the elaborate 'going along with it' but there's no way to test it. You could have:

1) complete and concious fabrication
2) unconcious fabrication
3) a combination of both
4) genuine physical reaction.

I fail to see what the difference between (2) and (4) would be. The mind is physical, after all. If you can persuade a person to unconsciously fabricate their recollections of being hypnotized, then what meaningful difference would there between that and "actually hypnotizing" them? You get the same results in the end: a person does silly things and then can't remember doing it.

That said, I do think (1) tends to be a factor.

 

[JonWhite]

That was chewy! Thanks.

You're welcome.

More very good links from another thread here, courtesy of Enlighten.

 

[Beerina]

I would agree with you. Faith healing and stage hypnosis are very similar. They both use the power of suggestion.

There are psychologists who claim hypnotism doesn't really even exist as a true phenomenon. These would thus just be cases of "the emperor's new clothes", where people are expected to behave in such-and-such a way. Skeptics who delve into theories of people tiring out and passing out, or passing out from falling into some sleep-like fantasy dream thing may be multiplying explanations needlessly by presuming there's something beyond fraud/confusion to be explained.

But in any case, hypnotism and faith healing results may be essentially the same phenomenon of people acting the way they are expected to prevent public embarassment at having "failed" to undergo the whatever. Tie in rationalizations of behavior, and people might actually believe the claims of what happened, rather than that they just "went along with it".

 

[Bikewer]

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to catch my spelling error.... Though sometimes those marital spats get rather martial.....

 

[slingblade]

They like the attention, they want to be in-group, and they can't stand the thought that god might not like them, or worse, even be real.

So they fake it, and can even convince themselves they actually felt something.

 

[JFrankA]

I have to admit I didn't read though this whole thread carefully. (I'm at work, sorry), but I did want to throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

I do stage hypnosis for entertainment, (not faith healing). I've been hypnotizing people, on my own, not through classes or anything, for nearly 20 years.

I've stated my opinion about hypnosis in another hypnosis thread, (which is here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100185&page=1 ) but I'll restate it here. I believe that hypnosis is just like going to the movies. You sit there, focusing on the screen, listening to the sounds, but when something exciting happens, your heart pounds, you may sweat and you feel the emotions along with the main charactors in the movie.

So IMHO, I believe that faith healing is very much the same thing.

The mind is very good at fooling itself. It is incredibly easy to generate false memories, make people "feel good" (hell, I can make my girlfriend feel completely drunk on pez candies), even mask pain -- for a time. Especially if the subject desires the outcome.

Hypnosis is nothing magical or holy or anything like that. It's simply focus, relaxation and desire. It's something we do everyday: watching tv, going to the movies, driving, pondering a particular problem, etc.

I can see faith healers working the same way. When I see one heal someone, I can't help but wonder how long before the illness "comes back"? They take the people off the stage as quickly as possible and they are never heard from again.

(No offense meant to anyone of any faith. Just stating my observations).