• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Facebook bans far right groups

psionl0 said:
No I don't agree with that amended statement but that is not what I was responding to.

What happened to "The neighbour is being a domineering, arrogant prick and acting like he owns the whole street, and like everyone has to march to his tune. After much arguing, and noisy dispute, Fred reaches his breaking point, . . ."
Click to expand...

You see, none of that actually matters. Fred has a history of anti-Semitism, and knew the neighbour was Jewish.
 
smartcooky said:
You see, none of that actually matters. Fred has a history of anti-Semitism, and knew the neighbour was Jewish.
Click to expand...
It matters. It makes all the difference.

Your spoiler didn't say that Fred "knew" that his neighbour was Jewish. And even if he did, your post made it clear that Fred only responded because he was provoked.
 
psionl0 said:
It matters. It makes all the difference.

Your spoiler didn't say that Fred "knew" that his neighbour was Jewish. And even if he did, your post made it clear that Fred only responded because he was provoked.
Click to expand...

Come on, guys, how would an anti-Semitic guy possibly know his neighbor was Jewish? I mean, he probably paints Swasticas on the property of anyone he doesn't like! And besides, the Jewish guy made him do it! So it was ok! Any "reasonable person" would clearly understand it that way! [/Sarcasm]
 
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed previously moderated content


While it is true that I don't agree with painting swastikas on Jewish people's property, or burning crosses on black people's lawns, or any of that sort of thing, they aren't hate crimes simply because I disagree with them. They are hate crimes because they are worse than you wish to portray them. The use of such imagery is meant to cause more pain and intimidation and fear than mere "property damage". Pretending that it is equivalent to finding a 'Billy-bob loves Charlene' painted on your fence is not something that a reasonable person is going to buy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
wareyin said:
While it is true that I don't agree with painting swastikas on Jewish people's property, or burning crosses on black people's lawns, or any of that sort of thing, they aren't hate crimes simply because I disagree with them. They are hate crimes because they are worse than you wish to portray them. The use of such imagery is meant to cause more pain and intimidation and fear than mere "property damage". Pretending that it is equivalent to finding a 'Billy-bob loves Charlene' painted on your fence is not something that a reasonable person is going to buy.
Click to expand...
The point is that most of the time, actions like these are done with the intent to cause fear/harm/hatred etc. I agree that such actions are criminal and should be prosecuted.

The problem stems when we get a strict liability law called "hate crime". Sometimes circumstances count. It is not helpful to the discussion if you are going to attempt a bait and switch like smartcooky tried.
 
psionl0 said:
The point is that most of the time, actions like these are done with the intent to cause fear/harm/hatred etc. I agree that such actions are criminal and should be prosecuted.

The problem stems when we get a strict liability law called "hate crime". Sometimes circumstances count. It is not helpful to the discussion if you are going to attempt a bait and switch like smartcooky tried.
Click to expand...

Smartcooky's example was quite helpful in exposing how some people can and will explain away any and every instance of an actual hate crime with "it was only a joke", or "the Jewish guy provoked him into it", or "how do we even know the anti-Semite even knew the person he targeted with explicitly anti-Semitic imagery was Jewish?" excuse.
 
wareyin said:
Smartcooky's example was quite helpful in exposing how some people can and will explain away any and every instance of an actual hate crime with "it was only a joke", or "the Jewish guy provoked him into it", or "how do we even know the anti-Semite even knew the person he targeted with explicitly anti-Semitic imagery was Jewish?" excuse.
Click to expand...
No, it was just a bait and switch and not particularly helpful because conflicting scenarios like that don't normally exist in real life.

I have had bad neighbours in the past and they can really make your life a living hell. I fully understand somebody wanting to get back at an arse hole like that.
 
psionl0 said:
No, it was just a bait and switch and not particularly helpful because conflicting scenarios like that don't normally exist in real life.

I have had bad neighbours in the past and they can really make your life a living hell. I fully understand somebody wanting to get back at an arse hole like that.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously claiming that in real life people who commit hate crimes don't attempt to hide their past racism when caught? Or that they don't try to make excuses for their hate crimes such as "the Jew provoked me," or "I didn't know he was Jewish" that have to be examined by the courts?

We've all had bad neighbors. I've never wanted to paint a swastika on anyone's fence, though. No matter how much of a jerk they were.
 
smartcooky said:
It makes me wonder why Facebook doesn't have some kind of verification system so that you have to provide documentary proof that you are a real person before your account can be validated. It might be a bit of work, but it cant be as much work as searching out billions of fake accounts.

TradeMe has a very good system for verifying users are real people - the user provides an address, TradeMe mails you a card, you sign it and mail it back - Verified!
Click to expand...


As good as that sounds, I'm going to say absolutely no -ing way I'm going to give up my personal home address to register on a social media site. That is a situation that is ripe for abuse. Sure, it sounds great when you're a privileged cis-het white person with no fear of social backlash, but when you're a marginalize minority who lives in a constant state of low-level fear, when you've personally been the subject of death threats because you're black, LGBTQ, muslim, whatever, the last thing you want is to be any more identifiable than you are.

Facebook's real name policy is bad enough, people have lost jobs because of it, not just for being idiots, but also for being openly LGBTQ, radical feminist, muslim, and so on. Employers already search Facebook and other social media sites to weed out job applicants with such "undesirable" traits; and I work in a very conservative industry run mostly by religious organizations. Fortunately, my name is common enough to make such a search less productive. If I do have to go job-hunting again, you can be damned sure that my Facebook page will disappear for the duration.

Yes, anonymity does definitely encourage the worst of human behaviour, but it's also a valuable protection for those of us who exist outside mainstream culture, who are considered less than human by the masses.
 
Belz... said:
Wow, that's double the amount of actual montly users.
Click to expand...
That supports my point even more.

"this is not your father's/mother's media world. What applied in the past about free speech simply doesn't apply to the propaganda power of social media. That has to be recognized and dealt with."
 
Last edited:
luchog said:
As good as that sounds, I'm going to say absolutely no -ing way I'm going to give up my personal home address to register on a social media site. That is a situation that is ripe for abuse. Sure, it sounds great when you're a privileged cis-het white person with no fear of social backlash, but when you're a marginalize minority who lives in a constant state of low-level fear, when you've personally been the subject of death threats because you're black, LGBTQ, muslim, whatever, the last thing you want is to be any more identifiable than you are.

Facebook's real name policy is bad enough, people have lost jobs because of it, not just for being idiots, but also for being openly LGBTQ, radical feminist, muslim, and so on. Employers already search Facebook and other social media sites to weed out job applicants with such "undesirable" traits; and I work in a very conservative industry run mostly by religious organizations. Fortunately, my name is common enough to make such a search less productive. If I do have to go job-hunting again, you can be damned sure that my Facebook page will disappear for the duration.

Yes, anonymity does definitely encourage the worst of human behaviour, but it's also a valuable protection for those of us who exist outside mainstream culture, who are considered less than human by the masses.
Click to expand...

Well then, they could have a system in which users may have a "Verified Account", where you can volunteer to supply that information if you choose to, and in return, Facebook would display a nice big "Account Verified" logo next to your name. Other users can then weight their decision as to how real you are.
 
wareyin said:
Are you seriously claiming that in real life people who commit hate crimes don't attempt to hide their past racism when caught? Or that they don't try to make excuses for their hate crimes such as "the Jew provoked me," or "I didn't know he was Jewish" that have to be examined by the courts?

We've all had bad neighbors. I've never wanted to paint a swastika on anyone's fence, though. No matter how much of a jerk they were.
Click to expand...

Do you know the religion of all your neighbours ? If you do, I'm impressed. We tend not to discuss things like politics and religion at our block parties but maybe you do where you live.

I'd paint a swastika on your fence if I thought you were acting like a nazi.
 
psionl0 said:
So you find some other way to get back at them.
Click to expand...

I might, but I'd definitely steer clear of hate crimes to do so.

I guess if one's go to attack on a neighbor they dislike is a swastika or a burning cross or the like, maybe some (if not all) of that dislike stems from bigotry rather than any actions or attitude from the neighbor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom