Face, meet leopard. Leopard, meet face.

[Ivor the Engineer]

As much as I enjoy hearing about terrible things happening to terrible people, the media’s tendency to frame these stories sympathetically is grating. How about some profiles on all the people this woman voted to harm? Because seriously, ◊◊◊◊ her.

IVF could be described as ******* someone seriously.

 

[Segnosaur]

I'd cut a woman trying to be a mom some slack. For some people (and my wife is one) being a mother and having children is your actual reason for living. It is all-encompassing and far eclipses any political ideology. I'd give this woman some lattitude for trying desperately to find a way to do the one thing she feels she is above ground for.

Yeah but in her case, not only was she letting the "motherhood is everything" mentality override her thinking, she failed to recognize that the person she was voting for (Trump), despite his "promises", was likely going to harm her chance at motherhood. (Since republicans are typically hostile to things like extended maternity leave, opposed Obamacare, their restrictions on abortion driving doctors out of women's health care, etc. then she would be LESS likely to be a successful mother under Trump, even if he actually followed through on his IVF promise.)

 

[dann]

We already had four years of evidence that Trump doesn't keep his promises. Plus much more before that.

Every election should have taught you that the vast majority of the candidates make promises to their voters they don't intend to keep. Unlike the promises they make to the people paying for their campaigns.
Democrats and Republicans alike.
Democrat strategist James Carville is currently telling his party to duo absolutely nothing because he knows that voters for the winner will tire of the broken promises, regret their vote, and thus (maybe) vote for a Democrat the next time - if there is a next time because that's also how representative democracy usually works.
So no resistance from Democrat wussies. Just wait it out and hope for the best.

ETA:

WHAT I AM SUGGESTING DEMOCRATS: DON'T HAVE PRESS CONFERENCES. DON'T YELL, DON'T SCREAM, DON'T THROW YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. JUST LET, YOU KNOW, YOU LEARNED BASEBALL WHEN YOU WERE A KID, JUST LIKE I DID. YOU WERE TAUGHT TO LET
THE BALL COME TO YOU. DON'T THROW THE BALL. LET THE BALL COME TO YOU THEN DO IT. YHE BALL IS COMING TO US.
(...) I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO PLAY POSSUM FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

Just in case anybody's wondering why the Democrats aren't doing anything ...

 

[Thermal]

Yeah but in her case, not only was she letting the "motherhood is everything" mentality override her thinking, she failed to recognize that the person she was voting for (Trump), despite his "promises", was likely going to harm her chance at motherhood. (Since republicans are typically hostile to things like extended maternity leave, opposed Obamacare, their restrictions on abortion driving doctors out of women's health care, etc. then she would be LESS likely to be a successful mother under Trump, even if he actually followed through on his IVF promise.)

Oh, I don't think it was a good decision. But I understand making very poor, ill-thought decisions when you're raison d'etre is threatened.

 

[dirtywick]

I'd cut a woman trying to be a mom some slack. For some people (and my wife is one) being a mother and having children is your actual reason for living. It is all-encompassing and far eclipses any political ideology. I'd give this woman some lattitude for trying desperately to find a way to do the one thing she feels she is above ground for.

ETA: although why she has no other options is a little questionable.

i cut all of these people a certain amount of slack. concepts like hope or trying to do something for your family’s future, or even fear and more are all things grifters and con men utilize to manipulate people into doing something stupid. nobody gets it right all the time, and everyone can be fooled.

but with trump, a decade of headlines and dozens of cons later, it’s way less slack. everyone was warned a million times. he’s still taxing tips, still taxing overtime, and you get no ivf. he’s gotten what he needs from the marks. now the marks need to understand what they are, and they don’t like it or want to hear it. but they need to, so don’t cut them too much slack.

 

[Segnosaur]

Every election should have taught you that the vast majority of the candidates make promises to their voters they don't intend to keep. Unlike the promises they make to the people paying for their campaigns.
Democrats and Republicans alike.

Jesus christ on a pogo stick...

Go back and look at post 96. I posted a reference that Obama managed to either fully or partially fulfill roughly 3/4 of his campaign promises. (Biden's numbers were a little lower but still over half.) Given the fact that a president is not (yet) a dictator and has to work through both a (potentially hostile) congress and court system, that's not bad.

So yes, some candidates DO follow through with fulfilling campaign promises.

 

[johnny karate]

I'd cut a woman trying to be a mom some slack. For some people (and my wife is one) being a mother and having children is your actual reason for living. It is all-encompassing and far eclipses any political ideology. I'd give this woman some lattitude for trying desperately to find a way to do the one thing she feels she is above ground for.

ETA: although why she has no other options is a little questionable.

Sorry, but anyone who seeks their own personal fulfillment by choosing harm for other people gets zero sympathy from me. The best thing to come out of this story is that this woman won't be able to procreate.

 

[Thermal]

i cut all of these people a certain amount of slack. concepts like hope or trying to do something for your family’s future, or even fear and more are all things grifters and con men utilize to manipulate people into doing something stupid. nobody gets it right all the time, and everyone can be fooled.

but with trump, a decade of headlines and dozens of cons later, it’s way less slack. everyone was warned a million times. he’s still taxing tips, still taxing overtime, and you get no ivf. he’s gotten what he needs from the marks. now the marks need to understand what they are, and they don’t like it or want to hear it. but they need to, so don’t cut them too much slack.

Yeah, I get that. I just mean to put her in a different category than the malice-motivated supporter. Like, when President Biden pardoned Hunter (after publicly assuring the world he would not interfere), I put that in a different category too. It's not a political betrayal of trust or hypocricy when parenthood comes into play.

 

[Thermal]

Sorry, but anyone who seeks their own personal fulfillment by choosing harm for other people gets zero sympathy from me. The best thing to come out of this story is that this woman won't be able to procreate.

Again, I don't think she might even see that she was choosing harm to others. Some issues eclipse your ability to be rational. Like, if she sat down and thought about it coolly, she'd probably realize that it was not even likely to happen. But I understand the desperation, and she looks young, so maybe she didn't make her most mature and reasoned decision. I'd certainly try to convince her that while I get the motivation, this was never likely to get her the desired outcome.

 

[dann]

Jesus christ on a pogo stick...
Go back and look at post 96. I posted a reference that Obama managed to either fully or partially fulfill roughly 3/4 of his campaign promises. (Biden's numbers were a little lower but still over half.) Given the fact that a president is not (yet) a dictator and has to work through both a (potentially hostile) congress and court system, that's not bad.
So yes, some candidates DO follow through with fulfilling campaign promises.

Did you notice the promises he didn't keep? Just a couple of them. Do you see a pattern?
Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
Limit subsidies for agribusiness
Strengthen anti-monopoly laws to favor independent farmers
Give tax incentives to new farmers
Regulate pollution from major livestock operations

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I'd cut a woman trying to be a mom some slack. For some people (and my wife is one) being a mother and having children is your actual reason for living. It is all-encompassing and far eclipses any political ideology. I'd give this woman some lattitude for trying desperately to find a way to do the one thing she feels she is above ground for.

ETA: although why she has no other options is a little questionable.

Yes, having (now) read the linked article, I can see that becoming a mother could be her sole overriding focus. Still, a part of me wonders if there isn't a bit of revisionism in her story. Was the prospect of free IVF really the sole reason she voted for someone she now says she otherwise detests, or is that what she now tells herself after he let her down on the IVF and destroyed her job with a wave of his sharpie?

 

[dann]

Well, whether Trump would keep promises is a different question to whether there was any promise in the first place.
Like The Don, I'm curious to know what reason she had to believe she'd get IVF paid for. Asking because I genuinely don't know.

D

Post in thread 'Face, meet leopard. Leopard, meet face.'

Feb 28, 2025

Did she have any reason to think that he would make IVF free ?

Trump says he wants to make IVF treatments paid for by government or insurance companies if elected (NBC News, Aug 29, 2024)

ETA: Let me remind everybody, Republicans and Democrats alike, that candidates are allowed to promise anything to voters and not follow up on their promises or do the opposite of what they promised once elected. It's what representative democracy is all about.
So if you are one of those Democrats who voted for Biden because you thought he was...

• dann

 

[johnny karate]

Again, I don't think she might even see that she was choosing harm to others. Some issues eclipse your ability to be rational. Like, if she sat down and thought about it coolly, she'd probably realize that it was not even likely to happen. But I understand the desperation, and she looks young, so maybe she didn't make her most mature and reasoned decision. I'd certainly try to convince her that while I get the motivation, this was never likely to get her the desired outcome.

I get what you're saying and respect your point of view. But I think at some point, not being aware of the harm you're causing others isn't an excuse. Because we're not talking about harm in merely the sense of bad policy, we're talking about the kind of harm that's going to get people killed. And when that comes to pass, this woman and every other Trump voter - no matter their intentions - will bear responsibility for it.

 

[Thermal]

Yes, having (now) read the linked article, I can see that becoming a mother could be her sole overriding focus. Still, a part of me wonders if there isn't a bit of revisionism in her story. Was the prospect of free IVF really the sole reason she voted for someone she now says she otherwise detests, or is that what she now tells herself after he let her down on the IVF and destroyed her job with a wave of his sharpie?

Fair call. Having lost your job, you might very well spin a story in a conveniently more sympathetic direction. I mean, she is only 24. She has abundantly healthy years in front of her to keep trying. My only point is that I can sympathize with the desire for motherhood putting blinders on you.

 

[Segnosaur]

Jesus christ on a pogo stick...
Go back and look at post 96. I posted a reference that Obama managed to either fully or partially fulfill roughly 3/4 of his campaign promises. (Biden's numbers were a little lower but still over half.) Given the fact that a president is not (yet) a dictator and has to work through both a (potentially hostile) congress and court system, that's not bad.
So yes, some candidates DO follow through with fulfilling campaign promises.

Did you notice the promises he didn't keep? Just a couple of them. Do you see a pattern?

Ummm... first of all, I said that Obama kept MOST of his promises, not all of them.

Secondly, as I posted out, candidates have to work through congress and the courts. Obama may have wanted to (for example) eliminate loopholes on oil or corporations, or strengthen anti-monopoly laws, but it is congress is the one that decides on taxation and passes laws.

Lets take a look at (for example) the promise to cut oil subsidies....

From: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...se/2/eliminate-all-oil-and-gas-tax-loopholes/
Democrats in the Senate voted on May 17, 2011 to cut back on tax breaks to the top 5 oil companies -- a vote that was supported by the Obama administration and, if it had passed, would have gone a long way toward fulfilling President Barack Obama's campaign promise... The Senate voted 52-48 in favor of moving the bill forward, meaning it failed to get the 60 votes needed to bring the measure up for debate. Votes largely broke along party lines, with all but two Republicans and three Democrats voting against it.

So Obama TRIED to get rid of the tax loopholes, but republicans in Congress scuttled it.

It still counts as a 'broken campaign promise', but I don't think you can blame Obama because it was republicans who blocked it.

 

[Segnosaur]

I get what you're saying and respect your point of view. But I think at some point, not being aware of the harm you're causing others isn't an excuse. Because we're not talking about harm in merely the sense of bad policy, we're talking about the kind of harm that's going to get people killed. And when that comes to pass, this woman and every other Trump voter - no matter their intentions - will bear responsibility for it.

Minor note:

From reading various versions of her story, she WAS aware of the problems Trump was causing. She just didn't care as much as she did about getting her "free IVF treatment".

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Did you notice the promises he didn't keep? Just a couple of them. Do you see a pattern?
Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
Limit subsidies for agribusiness
Strengthen anti-monopoly laws to favor independent farmers
Give tax incentives to new farmers
Regulate pollution from major livestock operations

I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore, do you? No one is saying you should expect politicians to uphold all their campaign promises. Of course they're going to fail to uphold some of them, either deliberately or due to things beyond their control. What we're saying is that it's utterly meaningless to trust Dump on anything he says. Except maybe oppress people and dismantle democracy. He's dedicated himself bigly to that.

With normal politicians, you know they have a long-term stance they'll work for. I can trust my city's green party to work for the environment and to make the city less car-friendly. They may not do exactly what they set out to do, but you know the general direction they'll take things. Dump's policies, though? You might as well try to divine them from tea leaves, they have no rationale behind them and he changes them more often than he changes his diapers. I mean, he can be trusted to enrich himself, be fantastically corrupt, and work to incite violence and dismantle democracy, but specific policies like free IVF or cheaper eggs? He'll see something shiny five minutes later and forget what IVF even is.

 

[johnny karate]

Minor note:

From reading various versions of her story, she WAS aware of the problems Trump was causing. She just didn't care as much as she did about getting her "free IVF treatment".

Point taken, yes. I wandered a bit into hypothetical territory. Regarding this specific woman, I stand firm in my position of ◊◊◊◊ her.

 

[shemp]

Sorry, but anyone who seeks their own personal fulfillment by choosing harm for other people gets zero sympathy from me. The best thing to come out of this story is that this woman won't be able to procreate.

Agreed. I hope she doesn't pass her stupidity to another generation. The ◊◊◊◊ with her!

 

[shemp]

Minor note:

From reading various versions of her story, she WAS aware of the problems Trump was causing. She just didn't care as much as she did about getting her "free IVF treatment".

"I'm voting for Hitler because there'll be plenty of jobs! I don't care what he does with the Jews!"