Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

You continue to blame a whole group for the actions of a few individuals. Some people call that bigotry.

No, not at all. I'm saying that those individuals could end up getting sued personally for their actions here. And if such a lawsuit comes, their cute little JREF Forum handles won't protect them from getting ID'ed; if a supeona were to be issued, the JREF would give up any and all relevant account info so that prosecuting attorneys could build their case.

That's the legal side, I suppose (I'm no lawyer). However, as I and others here criticized at the time, the tone of the thread certainly led to an atmosphere which might have encouraged the behavior of those individuals. That is more of an ethical question, though.
 
Tell you what... offer that as a legal defense to anyone hauled into court over their Internet sleuthing that led to innocent people being defamed. Let me know how that works out.


You continue to not actually have an argument.
 
Not sure. That's for the lawyers to decide. There are surely sites (such as Reddit and FB) which were orders of magnitude worse than what we saw here, by comparison. I'm guessing that's why Reddit is issuing its apology so publicly now: because they're afraid of getting their collective asses sued off.

But despite the fact that we were better than much of the rest of the Internet, in this very thread, back on page 28 or so, there were people who posted photos and names of people who were wrongfully identified.

As I said, it's a question for the lawyers, if a lawsuit comes of it. I think it's unlikely, but there you go.

I see one person posting two pics of Tripathi, with little or no comment.

Yet you have posted many posts which seem to be accusing ALL posters in this thread of being "internet sleuths".

Like I said, this thread is weird. I may not be following all the players closely enough.
 
I see one person posting two pics of Tripathi, with little or no comment.

I actually counted two, because one also posted the picture with a comment that the named individual was wearing a T-shirt containing the image of a known terrorist, but I digress. As I said, if it were to become an issue (which I doubt it will, but America is the Land of the Lawsuit), let's just say I'm glad I'm not them.

Yet you have posted many posts which seem to be accusing ALL posters in this thread of being "internet sleuths".

I didn't come up with the term, but I was using it as a catch-all term for the people who were trying to do photo analysis. Some of it was just dumb (because the FBI never asked people to do this - send them the photos YES; analyze the photos for them NO) but the worst was people posting and passing along specific names and photos of individuals. ALL of it lacked critical thinking, in my opinion.

Like I said, this thread is weird. I may not be following all the players closely enough.

Don't sweat it. The damn thread is almost 80 pages long. I'm surprised I've been able to keep track of as much as I have.
 
I see one person posting two pics of Tripathi, with little or no comment.

Yet you have posted many posts which seem to be accusing ALL posters in this thread of being "internet sleuths".

Like I said, this thread is weird. I may not be following all the players closely enough.

No, not all posters in the thread - might be hard to follow if you've not read all the thread? There was criticism earlier in the thread of singling out "suspicious looking" people (none of whom had anything to do with the bombing) in photos linked from other sites (some of these photos turned up on the notorious front page spread in the New York Post), and naming people as suspects (also linked from other sites), especially as the FBI specifically asked people to focus only on the photos they'd released.
 
I see one person posting two pics of Tripathi, with little or no comment.

Yet you have posted many posts which seem to be accusing ALL posters in this thread of being "internet sleuths".

Like I said, this thread is weird. I may not be following all the players closely enough.


I was promised a junior G-man badge for pointing out that the Internet sleuths had identified the suspects' caps.

Still no badge, and now maybe I'll be dragged into court instead. :(
 
You would therefore have to conclude, would you not, that the RAF and USAAF were terrorist organisations?

I don't think you can actually argue this. There's a common misconception that WW2 area bombing deliberately targeted civilians, but this isn't really true. The problem was that aerial bombing in that day and age wasn't particularly accurate, and the military targets they were bombing (such as factories, rail yards, and so on) were located amongst civilian areas. Thus, as a result, civilians were killed in the attacks. Some of the cities considered for the Atomic bombings were rejected precisely because it was felt they didn't offer a sufficient military target to justify an attack.


Theres also the question of what counts as reasonable steps to ensure you dont harm civillians. Is blowing up a bar frequented by members of the armed forces terrorism, even if 80% of the victims are civillians?

You know, the laws of armed conflict are pretty clear on all of these questions you're asking... blowing up a bar frequented by members of the armed forces might be legitimate, but only if you believed that, at the time of the bombing, there were military personnel in the bar.


How about drone strikes that routinely kill and maim civillians? Isnt that also terrorism?

There's a world of difference between unintentionally killing civilians and deliberately targeting civilians. Perhaps not to the civilians, but in the realm of law, big difference.

At this juncture I'd like to point out that there is no internationally accepted definition of "terrorism", which makes any discussion about it problematic. What further complicates the issue is that terrorism, by it's very nature, is very closely linked with armed conflict and therefore the laws of war, however the increasingly prevalence of fourth generation warfare has made our historic understanding of what constitutes war problematic.

An interesting definition of terrorism I've heard proposed is acts carried out in time of peace, that would, in an armed conflict, constitute a war crime.

The problem with this definition is that with fourth-generation warfare it's increasingly difficult to determine what is or isn't a war crime, who is or isn't a combatant, or indeed whether a party is or isn't at war.

My gut instinct is for the west to totally redefine our entire attitude towards terrorism, and view it for what it really is; a tactic employed in fourth generation warfare. Perpetrators of terrorism are therefore combatants, and should be prosecuted for war crimes. Of course, to do this, the west has to recognise and accept that we are in a state of perpetual low-intensity war, with dozens of different state and non-state entities. The reality is we are, but because that sounds far more scary than it actually is, I doubt the western public will ever accept it. So we stick to this fantasy that terrorists are just criminals, like burglars or rapists.
 
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Seems to me that identifying possible suspects in photos taken in and around the bombing site and listing why they could possibly be involved would fall under "critical thinking".
 
If what I'm reading in this "critical thinking" forum is any kind of wider indication, the FBI royally screwed up by making this move with the video/photos, in my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong. We'll see.


We've seen. You were wrong.
 
From a Lord & Taylor! Wonder, if same one by bombing?

Actually, no--the store where the shoplifting allegedly occurred is in Natick, MA.


I was promised a junior G-man badge for pointing out that the Internet sleuths had identified the suspects' caps.

Still no badge, and now maybe I'll be dragged into court instead. :(

Hey, why should you get a badge just for typing on the Interwebs, when I had to consume massive quantities of nasty cereal in order to acquire sufficient boxtops for mine? ;)
 
I actually counted two, because one also posted the picture with a comment that the named individual was wearing a T-shirt containing the image of a known terrorist.

One should be careful not to jump to rash judgements about people based on what they wear on their T-Shirts. In my youth, I once wore a T shirt that caused me some grief.

It was a white T-Shirt with a large blue Star of David. Above and below the star were the words "Visit Israel". This in itself didn't cause me any real problems; it what what was on the back that led to some trouble - a picture of a tank, itself emblazoned with a Star of David, with the words ".... before Israel visits you!".
 
One should be careful not to jump to rash judgements about people based on what they wear on their T-Shirts. In my youth, I once wore a T shirt that caused me some grief.

It was a white T-Shirt with a large blue Star of David. Above and below the star were the words "Visit Israel". This in itself didn't cause me any real problems; it what what was on the back that led to some trouble - a picture of a tank, itself emblazoned with a Star of David, with the words ".... before Israel visits you!".

So edgy.
 
We've seen. You were wrong.

You must have missed where I rescinded my criticism of the FBI, but I maintained it of the Internet sleuths. That's because I was originally under the mistaken impression that the FBI was specifically releasing a bunch of photos and asking people to do "analysis" on them. Then I was corrected by Checkmite on that point; what happened is that the FBI released a few photos of the suspects, asked people to send in more photos and info to them, NOT to start doing their own "photo analysis" on the Internet. Unfortunately, the good intentions crowd seemed to miss that last point and just couldn't resist the urge to play CSI online.

And yes, there were people harmed by all the speculation; otherwise, why would Reddit be issuing a public CYA apologizing for exactly that thing? You asked for evidence of harm, and I and others provided it. Ignore it if you want. C'est la vie.
 
...I was corrected by Checkmite on that point; what happened is that the FBI released a few photos of the suspects, asked people to send in more photos and info to them, NOT to start doing their own "photo analysis" on the Internet.


Not quite correct:

The FBI said:
For more than 100 years, the FBI has relied on the public to be its eyes and ears. With the media’s help, in an instant, these images will be delivered directly into the hands of millions around the world. We know the public will play a critical role in identifying and locating them.

No bit of information, no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential, is too small. Each piece moves us forward towards justice.

It is extremely important to contact us with any information regarding the identities of Suspect 1 and Suspect 2 and their locations.


Remarks of Special Agent in Charge Richard DesLauriers at Press Conference on Bombing Investigation

Bolding mine.

Do you not consider identifying the distinctive golfing hats the suspects wore as a bit of information about them? Since the FBI didn't release clearer images of the hats, it's reasonable to assume they hadn't identified them until the Internet sleuths (and I'm not including myself in the group, since my junior G-man badge is still in the mail) did, but might have found the information helpful.
 
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