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Explanations for this please!

UKBoy1977

Thinker
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
211
OK I was talking to my Mum just now about the old 'Levitation party trick' where 4 people lift a person up high using their fingers. You know the one.

Anyway I told her how it is just a case of the weight being distributed over 4 people and them being in a position which gives them good leverage (as explained in Flim Flam!) but she's not buying it. Reason is as follows, and my science is not good enough to argue my case:

She says that the person she liftes was about 12 stone and that she doesn't believe she could lift 3 stone with just her fingers. She performed a variation of it where, instead of just reciting some chant, the 4 people actually pushed down on the persons head and shoulders beforehand. Due to Newton's 3rd law the body of course exerts a reaction force. But she believes the body continues to exert this force after the people have stopped pushing, and this is what made the person feel 'as light as a feather, not 3 stone'

Another example of this effect (she claims) is when you stand in a doorway and push against one side with your arm for about a minute. When you stand away your arm magically rises! Now I admit this is a very cool trick, but I asserted that it was to do with the brain being fooled and continuing to stimulate the shoulder muscle to raise the arm, not that the force she was exerting somehow lingering on even after she had stopped consciously pushing.

Anyway can someone provide a good scientific explanation of the 2 things I have mentioned here as I am running out of ideas! It is particularly hard to explain why the person she 'levitated' feeling literally weightless rather than 3 stones worth. I could just say it was in your head, you were psyched up and didn't really notice the weight, but of course a believer isn't going to accept that!
 
Just thought I should add, I just went to check with my Mum that the person she lifted was definitely 12 stone.

"Well it was a 17 year old girl, she was probably 9 or 10 stone, I dunno!"

Hmm. Already things start to become clearer!

(Oh yeah, just in case any US folk here don't know what a stone is, 1 stone = 14 pounds. Sorry if this is patronising anyone, but I do encounter a lot of people on other boards who don't know!)
 
Despite what people think, the strength in one of their fingers (espcially the pointer finger) is pretty close to that of the entire hand. Also, they probably didn't levitate the person very long, so endurance wouldn't be an issue. A good way to test this would be to get a 3 stone weight and actually have her try to lift it.
 
A quick answer to the second one. Muscles are paired and work in opposition (thats how you can strighten out your arm after you flex it). The opposing muscle is always stimulated when a given muscle is "active". So, when you push on a door and stop, the muscle doing the pushing was depleted of the transmitter that caused it to contract so when the other muscle compensates, it in turn is not being compensated for adequitely by the first muscle so your arm rises. Clear?
 
UKBoy1977 said:
She says that the person she liftes was about 12 stone and that she doesn't believe she could lift 3 stone with just her fingers. She performed a variation of it where, instead of just reciting some chant, the 4 people actually pushed down on the persons head and shoulders beforehand. Due to Newton's 3rd law the body of course exerts a reaction force. But she believes the body continues to exert this force after the people have stopped pushing, and this is what made the person feel 'as light as a feather, not 3 stone'

!

This is the same effect that I mentioned above. It has everything to do with opposing muscle groups and nothing to do with newton.

She is suggesting that muscular activity reduces weight. Not. Put someone on a scale and try it.

What is a stone?
 
We did this "trick" in our PE class in high school, and I can assure you that there's no effort involved in lifting the person (we lifted one of the largest members of our class). As has already been pointed out, you aren't lifting the person for very long at all.

The only thing which I did notice was that our teacher picked as the 4 lifters the people who'd responded best during the relaxation and self hypnosis exercises we'd been doing earlier in the lesson - I don't know whether that information is particularly relevant, but it did stand out at the time.
 
I just did a quick experiment because i was interested, and found that lifting about 45 lbs of weight (about 3 stone) isn't that difficult, as long as your arm position is good.

For example lifting from a position where the arm is almost fully extended isn't much of a problem. However, trying to lift higher when the arm is bent at the elbow about 90 degree is substantially more difficult.

Also, I noticed that most of the actual lifting is done with the arm and shoulder, and all the fingers do is stay straight.

I would chalk this stunt up to clever placement of the people in certain places around the liftee, as well as the lifting from positions where their arms are the strongest. (ie standing on stools, or having taller people lift from positions that are more difficult for short people). I'd say try this out yourself, and see what you think.
 
reprise said:
We did this "trick" in our PE class in high school, and I can assure you that there's no effort involved in lifting the person (we lifted one of the largest members of our class). As has already been pointed out, you aren't lifting the person for very long at all.

We did this at school too, though not in class. It's easy. And I don't think (apart from the giggles) that any one of us really thought there was anything paranormal about it.

What happened was that the minute the person was off the table, they cracked up giggling. This meant that they weren't held for more than a couple of seconds. If they had stayed still, and been supported, I think our fingers might have got tired rather quickly.

Rolfe.
 
Ed said:
What is a stone?
As UKBoy1977 mentioned, a stone is a British unit of weight equal to 14 pounds. You know how, when someone asks you how tall you are, you don't say "68 inches," you say "5 feet and 8 inches" (or just "5 foot 8")? Well, the Brits do the same thing for weight. They don't say "I weigh 136 pounds," they say "I weigh 9 stone and 10 pounds" (or just "9 stone 10").

I learned this from Bridget Jones's Diary.
 
tracer said:

As UKBoy1977 mentioned, a stone is a British unit of weight equal to 14 pounds. You know how, when someone asks you how tall you are, you don't say "68 inches," you say "5 feet and 8 inches" (or just "5 foot 8")? Well, the Brits do the same thing for weight. They don't say "I weigh 136 pounds," they say "I weigh 9 stone and 10 pounds" (or just "9 stone 10").

I learned this from Bridget Jones's Diary.

Well, what is a pound then? :D
 
UKBoy1977 said:
She performed a variation of it where, instead of just reciting some chant, the 4 people actually pushed down on the persons head and shoulders beforehand. Due to Newton's 3rd law the body of course exerts a reaction force. But she believes the body continues to exert this force after the people have stopped pushing, and this is what made the person feel 'as light as a feather, not 3 stone'
This is hilarious! :roll:
 
I wonder how many so-called home educators are like this kid's mum? Doesn't bode well for the future:

Today's Lesson: Mom's explanation of how Jesus was able to walk on water.

I applaud the poster's sceptical thinking, however.

malc
 
plindboe said:


Well, what is a pound then? :D

A pint of water is damn close (if you know what a pint is;) ).:D


Max kinda beat me to it, but also 1 lb= 1/14 of a stone! :wink8:
 
hammegk said:


A pint of water is damn close (if you know what a pint is;) ).:D


Max kinda beat me to it, but also 1 lb= 1/14 of a stone! :wink8:

Hmmm...
"A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter"
in this part of the world.
 
Ninas grandpa said:
Hmmm...
"A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter"
in this part of the world.

Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram. *



*just thought I'd mention that...
 
A UK pint is 568ml, a US pint is 473ml. So in one country I drink ten pints a night, and in another I drink 12.

A pound is 454g anywhere.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Just a quick thought...

Leave home as quick as possible and have your mother committed..

DB
 

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