Existence vs Awareness

[Iacchus]

Jeebus, Iacchus, all you really want is for someone to say there is a God and it designed the universe.

Okay.

There is a god and it designed the universe.

Yes, isn't it wonderful? ... And the Universe too?

 

[RandFan]

No it isn't, if in fact we all have "spirits" and there is a heaven and a hell we go to when we die. This would be the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. But then again you would have to be a "spiritualist" in order to understand that.

If there is a Santa Claus that would be icing on the cake.
If there is an Easter Bunny that would be icing on the cake.
If psychic Powers were real that would be cool.

If, if, if. Is there a reason to suppose that any of these things are true.

 

[Iacchus]

Depends on what your questions are. Based on your ignorance of philosophy and physics I would suggest philosophers and scientists like Hawking and Greene.

I couldn't care less.

You are doing it again. That they "don't know" everything is not proof that they don't know anything.

Never said it was. But then again we seem to be speaking about something specific here now don't we?

You most certainly can't answer it for yourself with your head stuck in the sand spouting illogical statements derived from fallacious logic and arguing from ignorance.

If you say so.

And certainly no reasonable person would care about your nonsense.

Unless of course they understood it wasn't mere nonsense.

So why post here at all? You offer no answers.

Because you folks claim to want to know the truth when, in fact you really don't. Otherwise why don't you know what I know?

We know the questions. We know that science has been making a lot of progress by assuming the answer can be found and not sticking their heads in the sand screaming "god did it".

If you say so.

 

[Iacchus]

If there is a Santa Claus that would be icing on the cake.
If there is an Easter Bunny that would be icing on the cake.
If psychic Powers were real that would be cool.

If, if, if. Is there a reason to suppose that any of these things are true.

Yes, these things are indeed real for some of us.

 

[Belz...]

I don't doubt this in the least. However, before the advent of Darwinism, I doubt folks would have any idea what you're talking about. Albeit I'm sure most would agree, that things have a tendency to evolve, in the sense that they get progressively better, or worse ... or rather, devolve.

No they don't. They just change.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Unless of course they understood it wasn't mere nonsense.

No, it's not mere nonsense. It's MEGA nonsense.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I

Because you folks claim to want to know the truth when, in fact you really don't. Otherwise why don't you know what I know?

Not accepting a bunch of blather at face value from some guy who claims to have all the answers but can't back them up <> not wanting to know the truth.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, and through the providence of God we have come to know them. This is my contention.

Baseless contention.

Questions solicit answers. Why, do my questions bother you that much?

Because they make no sense and you refuse to learn from the answers.

Really? Then why do you folks claim not to know? And why the cries of heresy and lunacy to the first person who comes along to claim otherwise? Are you sure that you don't know? Yes, this is a true sign of ignorance.

Nonsense. Pure, Iacchan nonsense.

I am conscious, the Universe made me this way. I would not know anything outside of this fact.

The "universe" did nothing of the sort.

It all comes from the same place ... or, hasn't science been able to figure that out yet?

Haven't you ever wondered why you seem to be the only person around here who "knows" more than everybody ? Is it because you're delusional ?

My God is everywhere. He doesn't need to shrink. He also goes by the title of The Truth, by the way.

Then he's hopelessly mislabeled.

 

[Belz...]

Do you believe that the Universe tends to unfold in an orderly and progressive manner? Yes or no?

No. Chaos rules.

 

[RandFan]

I couldn't care less.

No kidding.

Never said it was. But then again we seem to be speaking about something specific here now don't we?

Yes, and you aren't going to understand what they do or don't know and why they know it unless you educate yourself. Concluding that there is something significant to the lack of knowledge on the part of scientists is indicative of or your willful ignorance.

If you say so.

Because it is so.

Unless of course they understood it wasn't mere nonsense.

Lacking any reason it can't be anything but nonsense.

Because you folks claim to want to know the truth when, in fact you really don't. Otherwise why don't you know what I know?

? Nonsensical. There is no way I can know for certainty what you know. I only know that,

1.) I was once a dualist and proponent of ID and made the same arguments that you are making now.

2.) There is no substance or reason to what you are saying so if you did in fact "know" something of value you sure aren't letting us in on it by spouting illogical nonsense.

If you say so.

Because it is so.

 

[Belz...]

What's that? Studying how the Universe could evolve without something to guide it?

Would that make you feel bad, Dolphin-man ? Would it be so bad if nothing was there to guide it ?

In fact, how can you expect order NOT to come forth from chaos ? And once this order is there, how can you expect it NOT to work in an orderly fashion, and decay and die, plunging again into chaos ? What's so amazing about that ?

No it isn't, if in fact we all have "spirits" and there is a heaven and a hell we go to when we die. This would be the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.

Why ? A simplistic, "fairy-tale" answer instead of a clockwork one ? I'll stick with THIS universe, thank you very much. Unless you can tell me that reincarnation is real and that I keep my memories from one life to the next, and that I pick my next incarnation every time.

 

[RandFan]

Yes, these things are indeed real for some of us.

And some people hear voices inside their head when no one is there. That something seems real doesn't mean that it is. If you want to believe that there is city somewhere made of icecream and popsicles then I suppose that it is real for you.

If you want to believe that you are going to get 90 virgins on your death bead then I suppose that it is real for you.

For me I want reason to suppose that I'm going to get 90 virgins on my death bed or lolypops and icecream for time and all eternity. Just because you say it is so won't make it so.

 

[Taffer]

Careful, Taffer. Iacchus may think we mean "absolutely" nothing.

Well, technically, it is "absolutely" nothing, since 'something' requires a space/time construct in which it can exist. If you follow.

 

[Taffer]

I don't doubt this in the least. However, before the advent of Darwinism, I doubt folks would have any idea what you're talking about. Albeit I'm sure most would agree, that things have a tendency to evolve, in the sense that they get progressively better, or worse ... or rather, devolve.

Evolution implies nothing of the sort. Evolution, in any sense, is simply "change over time". Not change for the better or worse, just change. Biological evolution is change over time leading to being better suited to one's environment (or to be more accurate, change over time leading to being less adversely suited to one's enviroment). There is no direction to evolution, and no goal.

 

[Taffer]

Really? Then why do you folks claim not to know? And why the cries of heresy and lunacy to the first person who comes along to claim otherwise? Are you sure that you don't know? Yes, this is a true sign of ignorance.

I assume you are talking about knowledge of anything before the big bang, yes? If that is the case, we claim nothing of the sort. We claim the inability to know, not that we don't know. There is a big difference.

I am conscious, the Universe made me this way. I would not know anything outside of this fact.

Not quite. You are conscious, and are in the universe. The universe is not conscious at all, Iacchus. It doesn't make anything. You are simply begging the question again.

It all comes from the same place ... or, hasn't science been able to figure that out yet?

Of course it has.

Rational shmashional, how did it get this way?

It is impossible to know.

So, at what point within the "time frame" of the Universe did things become logical and rational?

I assume right from the beginning. Possible it took a while for things to cool down, or something. I dunno.

 

[Taffer]

No, in fact the rock has actually devolved, from its "higher form" called a rock.

Who are you to decide which form is 'higher' and which form is 'lower'? Also, remember, Iacchus, that evolution has no goal, does not change things from "higher" to "lower" forms. It just changes things.

 

[Taffer]

What's that? Studying how the Universe could evolve without something to guide it?

Begging the question. Also, Iacchus, evolution does not require anything to guide it.

 

[Taffer]

Unless of course they understood it wasn't mere nonsense.

Prove it isn't.

Because you folks claim to want to know the truth when, in fact you really don't. Otherwise why don't you know what I know?

So you think that everyone else is wrong, and you are the only right one?

 

[Lothian]

Questions solicit answers.

Mine didn’t, but I am willing to try again. What is the point of God ?

 

[Belz...]

Well, technically, it is "absolutely" nothing, since 'something' requires a space/time construct in which it can exist. If you follow.

I meant that if the universe has a singularity as its "source", then even if the universe didn't exist, this singularity would (outside space and time, I gather.) That's not nothing, per se.