Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Marquis de Carabas]

Actually, the most fascinating thing is that they think they can win in court if they can just find the correct form of words. Given that their conspiracy theory relies on all the courts being in on the conspiracy, how could they possibly win in court even if they are right?

Words are MAGIC!

 

[D'rok]

Actually, the most fascinating thing is that they think they can win in court if they can just find the correct form of words. Given that their conspiracy theory relies on all the courts being in on the conspiracy, how could they possibly win in court even if they are right?

Wait, here is the winning strategy!

If you really want to strike fear into them, begin to plan a lawful assault on a Court packed with Sovereign friends. Make sure your Court officials are half asleep, thinking that they have it all sewn up, then when the Defendant turned Plaintiff manages to drive the Judge off the bench and into his chambers, abandoning his ship, Declare the Court abandoned and Declare that you are taking over the proceedings, as Sovereign, and use arrest warrants for each of the Court Officials in the room. Then proceed to conduct a De Jure Court trial, immediately for each, using 12 members of your Sovereign group, to try them for Impersonating Officers of the Court, Collusion, Fraud and other high crimes. Be sure to have multiple hidden cameras and visible cameras to record and pick up audio of the whole session, for posterity and our entertainment.

http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?p=50922#p50922

I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong.

 

[jargon buster]

Unless there are 2 psion10's he/she is posting pro freeman and NWO nonsense over on Freeman Ireland.
http://tirnasaor.com/forum/topics/e...ivity&id=3214356:Topic:113618&page=6#comments

Excellent post diarmaid! I couldn't have put it better myself but I would point out the THE QUEEN is also a corporation (Betty Windsor has no authority in this UCC world).

globalman, you didn't pull a "bait and switch" on me did you? There is a world of difference between stepping in when trouble is brewing and being "judge, jury and executioner".

Actually, in my childhood I don't remember the sorts of troubles that are common-place today - at least not where people took the law into their own hands. Of course I grew up in an era where most children lived with their natural mother and father and weren't mollycoddled to the extent that they couldn't even walk to school by themselves. The NWO agenda to deprive people of their independence hadn't begun in earnest yet.

I thought i recognised the log on

 

[Paul]

Be sure to have multiple hidden cameras and visible cameras to record and pick up audio of the whole session, for posterity and our entertainment.

Well, it would certainly be entertaining, at least for the rest of us.

 

[Horatius]

Wait, here is the winning strategy!



I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong.

As I mentioned before:

then when the Defendant turned Plaintiff manages to drive the Judge off the bench and into his chambers, abandoning his ship, Declare the Court abandoned and Declare that you are taking over the proceedings, as Sovereign, and use arrest warrants for each of the Court Officials in the room.

...in what court in the world can one party to the dispute simply declare themselves the judge, and start issuing judgements? That spits in the face of the entire concept of an impartial judiciary.

Even if they could find a way to make this legal, it would still be a horrendously bad idea.

 

[D'rok]

Words are MAGIC!

Judge: "I find you in contempt.."
FOTLer: "EXPELLIARMUS!"
Judge:

 

[D'rok]

As I mentioned before:





...in what court in the world can one party to the dispute simply declare themselves the judge, and start issuing judgements? That spits in the face of the entire concept of an impartial judiciary.

Even if they could find a way to make this legal, it would still be a horrendously bad idea.

Shill.

 

[psionl0]

So, lets see where these "maxims" fail...

Just because FMTOLers are masters of "double-think" does not mean that the maxims of commerce don't exist. The first three are in fact, quite reasonable - even if the rest are arguable.

The first maxim has nothing to do with taxes - it merely states that if you employ someone, you must pay him for the time that he were employed. (Try telling an employee "I'm not paying you because I'm not satisfied with your work" and see how far you get in a court).

The second maxim "all are equal" is the oft repeated mantra of "the land of the free". In commercial terms, if you enter into a contract with someone (even a corporation) you are bound by that contract no matter whether the person you contracted with is royalty or a criminal.

The third maxim simply means "Truth Rules". If you can establish the truth in a matter then it should override any previous considerations (although most legal jurisdictions put time limits on certain types of actions).

As for the business about affidavits, I can't verify that courts take that view but affidavits generally have a status similar to sworn statements given in a witness stand and sworn statements tend to be believed in a court unless disputed. (Certainly not a hard and fast rule).

Many a litigant has lost a case because they ran out of funds and could not afford to continue with it. (Lost by default).

The real issue is not whether these maxims underpin any laws (many maxims don't) but whether FMOTLers actually live according to these maxims themselves.

For example, the owners of the road system (the government) say that if you "travel" on these roads then it must be under the conditions the government says. FMOTLers (most who sign contracts to get government issued licences) would try to "travel" on the road then say they are not bound by any contract!?

 

[D'rok]

Just because FMTOLers are masters of "double-think" does not mean that the maxims of commerce don't exist.

True.

So, outside FOTLer sources, where are they?

 

[Horatius]

The first maxim has nothing to do with taxes - it merely states that if you employ someone, you must pay him for the time that he were employed. (Try telling an employee "I'm not paying you because I'm not satisfied with your work" and see how far you get in a court).

Actually, I'm pretty sure that happens quite a bit. Of course, the next sentence probably starts with, "Oh, and you're fired!", and the conversation ends with, "Oh yeah? Well, then sue me!"


An incompetent worker actually has a very good chance of not being paid for his work.

Should I tell the old joke about the guy who was hired to paint a porch?

"By the way, that t'ain't a Porche, it's a Ferrari!"

 

[psionl0]

Unless there are 2 psion10's he/she is posting pro freeman and NWO nonsense over on Freeman Ireland.

So THAT's what you meant about the "bumpy rides". If you take quotes from posts that I have made in other forums out of context I'm sure that you could make me look like a complete hypocrite - not to mention a blithering idiot.

I have often used expressions such as PTB and NWO to refer to the fact that there are powers greater than sovereign governments causing a lot of trouble in the world (mostly international banking). Whether the growth in "political correctness", attacks on education and families and the convenient (for power hungry politicians) "war on drugs and terror" is coincidental or the work of an international group of evil men is something I haven't been able to find any credible information about. Mind you, asking questions about that in a "freeman" forum will at best get you ignored - more likely, attacked.

I have certainly said that there are corporations named after states, countries and even the queen (and there are). However, I have never said that that's all there is. Nor have I said anywhere that you can get out of trouble just by "refusing to contract with a court".

I am sympathetic with quite a few of the beliefs expressed by some people in the "freeman" forums but many opinions that I am not willing to express on a freeman forum. This forum seems to be one wher I CAN express those opinions - that is - unless it is your mission to shoot me down in flames whenever I do.

 

[D'rok]

I have often used expressions such as PTB and NWO to refer to the fact that there are powers greater than sovereign governments causing a lot of trouble in the world (mostly international banking). Whether the growth in "political correctness", attacks on education and families and the convenient (for power hungry politicians) "war on drugs and terror" is coincidental or the work of an international group of evil men is something I haven't been able to find any credible information about. Mind you, asking questions about that in a "freeman" forum will at best get you ignored - more likely, attacked.

Lots of stuff in that paragraph to talk about. Why not start a thread about some of it? Especially the "powers greater than sovereign governments" bit.

 

[psionl0]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that happens quite a bit. Of course, the next sentence probably starts with, "Oh, and you're fired!", and the conversation ends with, "Oh yeah? Well, then sue me!"


An incompetent worker actually has a very good chance of not being paid for his work.

Don't confuse "independent contractor" with "employee". An employer can certainly sue an employee for damages (in the US anyway) but in any of the cases I have seen on TV, wages owed are inevitably deducted from any award that is made. I believe that in most states, payment of wages is not optional.

 

[jargon buster]

psion10 wrote

unless it is your mission to shoot me down in flames whenever I do.

That ,my friend will be entirely up to you.
Start a thread about the NWO see how it progresses

 

[psionl0]

Lots of stuff in that paragraph to talk about. Why not start a thread about some of it? Especially the "powers greater than sovereign governments" bit.

If you are genuinely interested in going to a different thread to have an in depth debate on where the "powers" are and how they are being misused then by all means, point the way. I have already hinted that it is all to do with money (money is power). I would point a link to "Proverbs 22:7" but I am still "new blood"

 

[Horatius]

http://bible.cc/proverbs/22-7.htm

"Just as the rich rule the poor, so the borrower is servant to the lender."

 

[jargon buster]

Are you going to start a new thread psion10?

having second thoughts?

 

[TraneWreck]

I had no idea this branch of the Tree of Insanity existed until today. Thank you much for the entertainment.

Admittedly I don't understand everything about the free-range loons, but the idea that someone could just spout out a couple words and be exempt from taxes and bills is hilarious. Is the US government a sphinx? Just solve the riddle and it estroys itself?

But let's assume the obviously flawed legal argument is true. There exists some structure of laws indicating that using a colon between your first and last name means you can avail yourself of the government cleaned water without contributing anything to the system, what authority would restrict the government from saying, "so what, you still have to pay?"

This is the part I don't understand: The government can enforce all these laws against someone until they speak the magic words...then what? Why would they stop enforcing their laws even if there existed some codified system, as these folks claim.

I should close by adding that after reading this thread I asked all my lawyer colleagues, a number of people I went to law school with (a couple of whom clerked at the highest of levels), and no one has heard of this. If no judges or attorneys, even legal scholars and historians, have any idea what this is, why would it be effective even if it did exists. If there are no judges to rule in favor of the free-rangers, how on earth do they think it will be enforced?

 

[Stacey Grove]

I should close by adding that after reading this thread I asked all my lawyer colleagues, a number of people I went to law school with (a couple of whom clerked at the highest of levels), and no one has heard of this. If no judges or attorneys, even legal scholars and historians, have any idea what this is, why would it be effective even if it did exists. If there are no judges to rule in favor of the free-rangers, how on earth do they think it will be enforced?

Ahh, but. The fotl nuts will tell you the whole of the legal profession are actually in on the secret and the lawyers and judges recognise the legal arguments of the fotl are in fact correct, but they will always claim ignorance in case the secret gets out.

 

[TraneWreck]

Ahh, but. The fotl nuts will tell you the whole of the legal profession are actually in on the secret and the lawyers and judges recognise the legal arguments of the fotl are in fact correct, but they will always claim ignorance in case the secret gets out.

Well, I'm a lawyer, no one told me.