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Ex-CIA chief: Cheney 'VP for torture'

CBL4

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Former CIA director Stansfield Turner has labeled Dick Cheney a "vice president for torture."

In an interview with Britain's ITV news Thursday, Turner said the U.S. vice president was damaging America's reputation by overseeing torture policies of possible terrorist suspects, the UK's Press Association reported.

"I'm embarrassed the United States has a vice president for torture," Turner said, according to ITV's Web site. "He condones torture, what else is he?"

Turner said he did not believe U.S. President George W. Bush's statements that the United States does not use torture.
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"We have crossed the line into dangerous territory," PA quoted Turner as saying. "I think it is just reprehensible."
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/18/turner.cheney/index.html
 
Grammatron said:
Does he have evidence other than he does not "believe" the president?
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His own words, maybe?

Cheney told his audience the United States doesn't engage in torture, these participants added, even though he said the administration needed an exemption from any legislation banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment in case the president decided one was necessary to prevent a terrorist attack.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051105/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_torture

Our Vice President has proposed to Senator John McCain that, in cases involving counter-terrorism, the CIA or any "element of the United States government" outside the Defense Department (i.e., outisde the military) be exempt of the Senate amendment that would prohibit cruel and degrading treatment of prisoners.
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The office of Vice President Cheney was the origin of directives to the military to torture prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, Col. Laurence Wilkerson has told NPR. The former chief of staff to Colin Powell had been asked by Powell to assemble all the paperwork on how the chain of prison abuse got started, and found a series of memos to the Defense Department that countermanded the public directive of President Bush that ordered the military to respect the Geneva Conventions.
“It was clear to me that there was a visible audit trail from the vice president's office, through the secretary of defense, down to the commanders in the field, that, in carefully couched terms... to the soldier in the field meant two things: we're not getting enough good intelligence and you need to get that evidence, and, oh, by the way, here are some ways you probably can get it, and even some of the ways that they detailed were not in accordance with Geneva Conventions and the law of war...If you are a military man, you know that you just don't do these sorts of things..."
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http://www.thebushpresidency.org/index.htm
 
Originally posted by Grammatron
Does he have evidence other than he does not "believe" the president?
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Maybe he reads the Washington Post. They have been publishing articles on torture since before we invaded Iraq. Of course, since they frequently city intelligence reports, it is quite likely he has more direct knowledge. Even after 25 years, I would guarantee he still talks with people at the CIA.

Or maybe he saw pictures from Abu Graib. Or heard Cheney say that we should not ban the CIA from using inhumane treatment. Or maybe he has read some army reports about torture.

CBL
 
Stanfield Turner is still around? Someone should tell him we finally got around to fixing that mess in Afganistan after he said the Soviets wouldn't invade. Oh yeah, and one of the hostage takers from the hostage taking he said wouldn't happen might be President of the Islamic Republic he said wouldn't overthrow the Shah.
 
manny said:
Stanfield Turner is still around? Someone should tell him we finally got around to fixing that mess in Afganistan after he said the Soviets wouldn't invade. Oh yeah, and one of the hostage takers from the hostage taking he said wouldn't happen might be President of the Islamic Republic he said wouldn't overthrow the Shah.
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I wasn't even going to go there...
 
manny said:
Stanfield Turner is still around? Someone should tell him we finally got around to fixing that mess in Afganistan after he said the Soviets wouldn't invade. Oh yeah, and one of the hostage takers from the hostage taking he said wouldn't happen might be President of the Islamic Republic he said wouldn't overthrow the Shah.
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Someone please jump in if I'm wrong - but I believe that Turner is also "credited" with dismantling the human intelligence side of the CIA. Especially, shutting down some of the more aggressive methods of collecting intelligence and replacing the human side with more technical means. Granted, Turner was likely responding to post-Watergate pressures as well as the much publicized assasination attempts. However, as previously mentioned, I can't believe that Turner doesn't have access to more information that what's in the Wash Post.
 
a_unique_person said:
He didn't screw anything up like his son did.
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In the alternate universe I live in, Bush I left Saddam in power, encouraged then failed to support the Shia uprising that was brutally crushed, and started 12 years of sanctions that some say caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Must have been different in your universe...
 
joe1347 said:
Someone please jump in if I'm wrong - but I believe that Turner is also "credited" with dismantling the human intelligence side of the CIA. Especially, shutting down some of the more aggressive methods of collecting intelligence and replacing the human side with more technical means.
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True, he did al that. And it may have had negative consequences for the reliability of CIA information on Iran, the Soviet Union, Afghanistan and other places. But he's been out of office for almost 25 years. If subsequent directors haven't rebuilt that ability (which they largely haven't) I'm not going to hold him responsible for it.

I can't believe that Turner doesn't have access to more information that what's in the Wash Post.
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My point is that Turner was an out-of-touch idiot even when he was acually heading the CIA. To think that he somehow has better knowledge or insight 25 years removed from the job is, frankly, stupid.
 
manny said:
Stanfield Turner is still around? Someone should tell him we finally got around to fixing that mess in Afganistan after he said the Soviets wouldn't invade. Oh yeah, and one of the hostage takers from the hostage taking he said wouldn't happen might be President of the Islamic Republic he said wouldn't overthrow the Shah.
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I'm not saying that Turner is definitely credible here, but I don't go for this argument... being bad at predictions doesn't mean that he's an unreliable source for facts--those are two different things.
 
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