FramerDave
Muse
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2005
- Messages
- 820
...and so everyone heard exactly what they wanted to.
Yeah_Right
Muse
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
- Messages
- 638
I doubt I could be shocked into belief, since I have heard hundreds of EVP and they are unconvincing. You might hate hearing this but "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
Now I suppose EVPs could be evidence of life after death, but the evidence thus far has been flimsy.
Now I suppose EVPs could be evidence of life after death, but the evidence thus far has been flimsy.
TheBoyPaj
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2003
- Messages
- 1,640
Re: Some Final thoughts
That depends on how relevant the answer was, and whether it could be recognised by someone who did not know what the question was. I expect it would have to be done several times, for confirmation
That depends on who the people are.
Supplied by the JREF, paid for by you
recorded by whom?
I don't know. As Azrael said, you'd have to apply and find out.
scriptcoc said:
That depends on how relevant the answer was, and whether it could be recognised by someone who did not know what the question was. I expect it would have to be done several times, for confirmation
That depends on who the people are.
Supplied by the JREF, paid for by you
recorded by whom?
I don't know. As Azrael said, you'd have to apply and find out.
Humans are great at detecting patterns, even when there are none.
I've heard a lot of these recordings. Assuming no trickery has taken place, you can hear voices or odd words. Keep in mind the sheer volume of recording that is usually done until one of these 'voices' is recorded.
I recall a recording I heard, the first time I played it and didn't really notice anything. I was then told what to listen for, and then played it again and heard it clearly.
If you are looking for a pattern where there is none, you can ofen pick things out. Try listening to your washing machine sometime, You can pick out patterns or what sounds like words.
Do the dead communicate through Whirlpool?
I've heard a lot of these recordings. Assuming no trickery has taken place, you can hear voices or odd words. Keep in mind the sheer volume of recording that is usually done until one of these 'voices' is recorded.
I recall a recording I heard, the first time I played it and didn't really notice anything. I was then told what to listen for, and then played it again and heard it clearly.
If you are looking for a pattern where there is none, you can ofen pick things out. Try listening to your washing machine sometime, You can pick out patterns or what sounds like words.
Do the dead communicate through Whirlpool?
Kopji
Philosopher
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,004
So I am a little curious because that sounds like it requires belief.
I do not pretend to be skeptical about this.
I think these people are predators.
Please prove me wrong.
Looking at how this technology "works": a low white noise signal modified by the dead... so how do you know the signal is being modified by the dead and not due to some form of telepathy from the living? (stretching a point)
This is an old question and was a huge one around 1900.
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
And yet a religion has grown up around it. You must be 'protected' when contacting the dead. And why is that?
What about the child on the other side. Are they safe there? Don't you worry just a little?
Don't you worry about attracting evil entities around your child on the other side? So set up that protection. The needs grow and evolve into new needs with complex solutions.
These people disgust me and I am not afraid to say so. By encouraging others to seek them out you lead people to the wolves.
So get your friend to apply. She won't because she KNOWS what the result will be. Call me names, stamp around.
Frauds
Wolves
Sheep
scriptcoc
My grandmother had it for years before she passed away. Some days she didn’t remember her parents dying and would ask about them. If you told her they had been dead for years she would break down as if hearing the news for the first time.
Ossai
Audio waves are part of the EM spectrum.
You just gave away the answer – in color. Even without a mic attached the sound from the tape will change after being ‘recorded’ on.
Not to sound insensitive, but did the lady have Alzheimer’s?
My grandmother had it for years before she passed away. Some days she didn’t remember her parents dying and would ask about them. If you told her they had been dead for years she would break down as if hearing the news for the first time.
Ossai
Bodhi Dharma Zen
Advaitin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Messages
- 3,926
mayday said:
What you say is coherent if you look at it from certain perspective. I do not deny that. Now, lets dig a bit more. You say that the waves that a tape recorder can capture are of "low frequency", can you be more specific? Who have measured the frequencies for "lower" and "higher" souls?
Second, what, exactly, can a recorder pick up that is in "another dimension"? if you leave a tape recorder with a mic opened all it will capture are changes in the air pressure, well, that a maybe some RF signals of low intensity (if cables are not shielded, etc). Where is the other dimension here? It would be helpful if you can explain.
TheBoyPaj
I skipped a step in there, radio -> audio -> record
EM spectrum
It was also pointed out that by using a corded microphone, the cord could act as an antenna and pick up signals.
Ossai
I skipped a step in there, radio -> audio -> recordEM spectrum
It was also pointed out that by using a corded microphone, the cord could act as an antenna and pick up signals.
Ossai
To Kropji
Your funny...("go stamp around if you must...ha ha..)you have put alot of work thinking about this...and ya I am also with you on the
idea that EVP may turn into some sort of cult....but that would be sad woulnd't it... You raised a good question...why do we need protection from the dead....to answer that all I can think of is that it is not the dead that we are asking protection from...rather the bad ass people who have crossed over....they maybe haven't changed...and as far as our children on the other side needing protection....I suppose thats what thinking good thoughts is for,,,protection, guidance, focus, prayer, concentrated love and concern....but not everyone should mess around with this especially if they are prone to emotional instability,,,(which is unfortunately what every greieving person is prone to if you want to be honest about it) Maybe I have answered my own questions....because to be honest all I really wanted out of any of this was a chance to hear the voice of my daughter again...and the voice wouln't even have to say anything specific....its a mom thing....I am not even greieving its been a long time....almost 8 years...so I can imagine that others more close to the event might wander off the deep end if not guided throught this by someone with understanding and compassion.
Your funny...("go stamp around if you must...ha ha..)you have put alot of work thinking about this...and ya I am also with you on the
idea that EVP may turn into some sort of cult....but that would be sad woulnd't it... You raised a good question...why do we need protection from the dead....to answer that all I can think of is that it is not the dead that we are asking protection from...rather the bad ass people who have crossed over....they maybe haven't changed...and as far as our children on the other side needing protection....I suppose thats what thinking good thoughts is for,,,protection, guidance, focus, prayer, concentrated love and concern....but not everyone should mess around with this especially if they are prone to emotional instability,,,(which is unfortunately what every greieving person is prone to if you want to be honest about it) Maybe I have answered my own questions....because to be honest all I really wanted out of any of this was a chance to hear the voice of my daughter again...and the voice wouln't even have to say anything specific....its a mom thing....I am not even greieving its been a long time....almost 8 years...so I can imagine that others more close to the event might wander off the deep end if not guided throught this by someone with understanding and compassion.
Kopji
Philosopher
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,004
That simple thought from a mom is why I would SO want this to be true for you. That is such a nice hope to have, and understandable from anyone.
I am not an expert skeptic like some here, but I do see some of the same 'science' claims over and over. The dead speaking to us through various electronic equipment means there is some kind of 'physics' to it. Even if it were some kind of unknown weird quantum thingy from another dimension, we are here and there would need to be some means of touching this existence that we could measure.
There much more sensitive instruments than old tape recorders. And yet, no scientist seems to have produced such a device. And think of how useful it would be to ask questions of those long dead. The value of knowing 'what really happened?' is immense. This would be the single most important invention ever.
But this vast scientifc niche is filled with the usual people selling books and claiming various conflicting results. A lot of these people know each other by the way, and endorse each others work. It is one big happy family. The famous Dr Schultz from ASU also promotes the books of psychics he "tests", and they in turn endorse him as really being a tough skeptic.
The evp concept is that a spirit can change a random number generator so the numbers are no longer random. White noise is a kind of random signal. So the idea is the even though the spirit force is weak, it does not take much to change random noise. They 'talk' to us by modifying a random stream.
The problem with inputs: microphones, cables, and even various electronic circuits is that they ARE INPUTS. They make random white noise less random. So when I see this so called "need" being described, it sounds like fraud without a whole lot of investigation. What we would want to really test this idea, is to have the weakest, most random signal we could get. We do not get that kind of signal by hooking inputs to our tape recorder. Inputs make our signal LESS random. If this spirit idea were true, the effort would be put into making these completely input free - EXCEPT for the input of the spirit.
I wish you well. Good luck in your search for what's true and what's not.
mayday
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,702
Kopji said:
Ok, I'm generally an easy going person, but this flippant remark really p*sses me off to no end, especially when it is so painfully obvious you have no idea what is being talked about. First of all, no one here is trying to act as a predator toward someone who has suffered a loss. I've suffered losses, as has just about anyone over 20 yrs. old. I in no way suggest that deceased children are stuck in hell or purgatory. What I am saying, AND EVEN THE BIBLE BACKS ME UP, is that the voices the friend hears on the tape are more than likely NOT the deceased children but demons PRETENDING to be the deceased loved one. Whether or not you believe in demons is your business but as far as I know people are free to discuss their beliefs here so don't you dare get on your high horse and start rattling off with condescending remarks about things you don't happen to agree with.
For mayday
Hey there,
I like it when you stick up for yourself....
anyhow....I found a sight
www.njghostresearch.org/links.htm
that might be of interest to some of you...
I agree with most of you that the recordings from EVP are mostly muffled, junk that is non intelligiable.....but...and this is a big but
some isn't and I just hope that those that are clear are not the work of deceptive practices by the wishful recorder...
I just recieved a audiofile from my friend Martha, in which she says that she picked up my duaghters name...
It kind of creeped me out....only because it is so vauge ..anyone interested in listening to it??????
Hey there,
I like it when you stick up for yourself....
anyhow....I found a sight
www.njghostresearch.org/links.htm
that might be of interest to some of you...
I agree with most of you that the recordings from EVP are mostly muffled, junk that is non intelligiable.....but...and this is a big but
some isn't and I just hope that those that are clear are not the work of deceptive practices by the wishful recorder...
I just recieved a audiofile from my friend Martha, in which she says that she picked up my duaghters name...
It kind of creeped me out....only because it is so vauge ..anyone interested in listening to it??????
mayday
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,702
Re: To Kropji
This statement breaks my heart. As a mother of three (and one miscarriage or I would have had four) I can only imagine how unbearable it would be to lose one of my living children. I feel my only purpose in life is to see these children are brought up in a good home. After that I do not care what happens to me.
I know of some very beneficial grief therapy, feel free to contact me through pm's. Take everything you read from people here with a grain of salt. Most people here will diss everything they can't explain as being "woo-woo" or whatever they call it, yet they haven't even tried what they are trying to diss. Many people who come here do so as an outlet to vent, and they like to ridicule anything they can perceive as "weak" in another person.
Remember this: the less people know about something the stronger their opinions are.
I've worked with a lot of dying people. Right now I am working a home health case that has switched to a hospice case. You can ask any nurse who has worked extensively with dying people and they will agree that there are a lot of very unusual things that happen to that dying person within a few hours of death that no one can explain, and it is definitely a lot more than a trick of the brain. The last dying person I worked with seemed to perk up a little in his last hours. While I was in the room with him I would hear him say, "Mama?" A little while later he would say it again. "Mama?...Mama?"
I asked him, who are you talking to? He said, "My mama. She's standing right there, can't you see her?"
In all these deathbed "visions" I have never once heard a patient call out to and claim to see someone who was still alive. I don't need a pietre dish full of goo or a microscope to tell me that something very special is happening to that person.
It would mean a lot to me to be able to talk to my father again. He died when I was 17 and there was a lot I never got to say to him. My cousin died at the young age of 34 recently, all of my family is slowly but surely slipping away. Most of my relatives from my childhood are gone (with the exception of my siblings, and they are just a bunch of junkies and boozers, losers and jerks) But one thing that would make me happy in life is to be able to see them all together, at my grandparents' place, enjoying their new life, and to know that one day I will be there with them.
But life is so full of unknowns. I do know one thing...scientists, with all their gobbeldy goop, can't disprove that life after death exists. And they can't prove that the voices we record are CB radios, or intercepted phone conversations or any other far fetched rationalizations.
I also want to tell you, that when I have done EVP's, I have also gotten the voices of children. ANd I want to tell you how I sincerely believe these voices cannot be that of actual children: I will inevitably get some other voices, many of which say things so nasty they are not even worth repeating. I in no way believe that children who die are left to be around these creatures. I do believe these creatures are capable of playing pranks and can mimick the voices of children in an attempt to fool the listener into believing there is something redeeming there and will attempt to continue communication.
There is so much to be leary of when you are working with standard EVPs.
scriptcoc said:
This statement breaks my heart. As a mother of three (and one miscarriage or I would have had four) I can only imagine how unbearable it would be to lose one of my living children. I feel my only purpose in life is to see these children are brought up in a good home. After that I do not care what happens to me.
I know of some very beneficial grief therapy, feel free to contact me through pm's. Take everything you read from people here with a grain of salt. Most people here will diss everything they can't explain as being "woo-woo" or whatever they call it, yet they haven't even tried what they are trying to diss. Many people who come here do so as an outlet to vent, and they like to ridicule anything they can perceive as "weak" in another person.
Remember this: the less people know about something the stronger their opinions are.
I've worked with a lot of dying people. Right now I am working a home health case that has switched to a hospice case. You can ask any nurse who has worked extensively with dying people and they will agree that there are a lot of very unusual things that happen to that dying person within a few hours of death that no one can explain, and it is definitely a lot more than a trick of the brain. The last dying person I worked with seemed to perk up a little in his last hours. While I was in the room with him I would hear him say, "Mama?" A little while later he would say it again. "Mama?...Mama?"
I asked him, who are you talking to? He said, "My mama. She's standing right there, can't you see her?"
In all these deathbed "visions" I have never once heard a patient call out to and claim to see someone who was still alive. I don't need a pietre dish full of goo or a microscope to tell me that something very special is happening to that person.
It would mean a lot to me to be able to talk to my father again. He died when I was 17 and there was a lot I never got to say to him. My cousin died at the young age of 34 recently, all of my family is slowly but surely slipping away. Most of my relatives from my childhood are gone (with the exception of my siblings, and they are just a bunch of junkies and boozers, losers and jerks) But one thing that would make me happy in life is to be able to see them all together, at my grandparents' place, enjoying their new life, and to know that one day I will be there with them.
But life is so full of unknowns. I do know one thing...scientists, with all their gobbeldy goop, can't disprove that life after death exists. And they can't prove that the voices we record are CB radios, or intercepted phone conversations or any other far fetched rationalizations.
I also want to tell you, that when I have done EVP's, I have also gotten the voices of children. ANd I want to tell you how I sincerely believe these voices cannot be that of actual children: I will inevitably get some other voices, many of which say things so nasty they are not even worth repeating. I in no way believe that children who die are left to be around these creatures. I do believe these creatures are capable of playing pranks and can mimick the voices of children in an attempt to fool the listener into believing there is something redeeming there and will attempt to continue communication.
There is so much to be leary of when you are working with standard EVPs.