Evolution or Creationism, Where does the evidence lead?

Steve, in your last post you said that you believe that "Natural selection does not cause mutations or beneficial traits. Natural selection can only select the most beneficial genes that already exist in the population. This selection is driven by the fitness of the organisms (survivability, reproduction rate, etc) which is dependent on the environmental conditions the organism exists in. This may seem like a nit-picky point, but it is very important to understand this. New mutations and gene variations are produced by random processes and duplication errors. Natural selection is the process that determines if the mutations and gene variations are beneficial or harmful depending on the environment that they exist in."

If an impersonal, random natural selection can select the most beneficial genes already existing in a given population, then it should be very easy to produce evolved organisms in a laboratory environment, even by forcing manufactured mutations. All of the traits contingent upon the variables such as fitness, survivability, reproduction, and environment would be easily controlled. Evolutionist writers have openly claimed that mutations are very easily induced by radiation, chemicals, temperature, food, etc. Are you willing to cite any evidence of a prepared and artificial environment, wherein these processes have been found to produce viable new organisms known to evolve through an induced natural selection? Please cite research location for perusal. Thanks.
 
Has anyone pointed out the obvious fact that it was evolutionary biologists who are making all of these discoveries about genes and codons and such?

That it is evolutionary biologists who are figuring out more refined details about their own theories, through this information. And, I might add, most of it predicted by the evolutionary biologists, through their own studies?

I don't see Intelligent Design proponents making any new discoveries. All they seem to do is post-hoc analysis: Grab what the real scientists are discovering, and shoe-horn them into their own ideas.

The result is that Evolution, through its own changes and discoveries, has been powerful enough to change the ideas of I.D. proponents, but I.D. has not been able change the course of Evolution.

For example, "Front-Loading Evolution" is basically accepting most (if not all) the findings of Evo/Devo, and adding its own superfluous detail. "Well, okay, we now accept that multiple functions could emerge from various structures, etc. But, we insist it was front-loaded, by design to do so!" Does the insistence of a Designer help us make any new discoveries about the life form? If not, how could one claim there really is scientific evidence for a Designer?

Does this help anyone figure out who is doing the real science? And, where the evidence is actually leading?
 
The article says that "This little animal has been named Indohyus, although the skeleton is not complete the skull has been found and the preserved middle ear structure is identical to that found in the cetacean group. (No complete skeleton but they know every detail about it.)

Inner ear bones are in the skull.
 
If an impersonal, random natural selection

Natural selection is not random, it is unguided, and this is a very important point to remember. The processes that create mutations are random.

If an impersonal, random natural selection can select the most beneficial genes already existing in a given population, then it should be very easy to produce evolved organisms in a laboratory environment, even by forcing manufactured mutations. All of the traits contingent upon the variables such as fitness, survivability, reproduction, and environment would be easily controlled. Evolutionist writers have openly claimed that mutations are very easily induced by radiation, chemicals, temperature, food, etc. Are you willing to cite any evidence of a prepared and artificial environment, wherein these processes have been found to produce viable new organisms known to evolve through an induced natural selection? Please cite research location for perusal. Thanks.

I can do you one better than that. Recently, an amazing study was released by Richard Lenski. Twenty years ago he took a single E-coli bacterium and allowed it to reproduce. He split the one bacterial colony into several lines and allowed them all to reproduce. Every so many generations (several hundred I think) he would freeze a sample of the population and dilute them back down.

He never induced mutations in any of the populations. At first he saw similar changes in all colonies. Since the bacteria were growing unimpeded in an enriched environment, they evolved larger cell sizes. Then something amazing happened. One colony, from only one of the twelve strains was suddenly able to metabolize citrate, something present in the auger that could not be metabolized by the original E-coli. Because of his meticulous cataloging of the cell lines, he was able to rewind the experiment to before the bacteria could metabolize citrate, and let them start growing again. Once again the same cell line, and none of the others, evolved the ability to metabolize citrate. This drastic change took only 20 years and about 40,000 generations.

A unique set of mutations accumulated in this cell line that eventually created a means to access a previously untapped food source. He originally noticed something was different because the colonies of that line were growing so much faster than the other lines. This shows that random mutations can eventually allow an organism to acquire a unique and beneficial trait.

I cannot post links yet, but if you do a Google search for "bacteria evolve citrate" you will find several science articles about this research. I am almost positive that a few of them link to the actual study. If you are still having trouble finding the study, I should be able to post links soon, so just ask and I will link to it.
 
Natural selection is not random, it is unguided, and this is a very important point to remember. The processes that create mutations are random.

I am not sure I totally agree with that. In some circumstances it seems that creatures can undergo a very fast series of mutations. Whales for instance jumped through a remarkable number of evolutionary hoops in a very short period of time to get to be whales.
 
For all intents and purposes we could consider mutations "random". Technically, they do have causes. And, yes, the rate of mutation, itself, could be adjusted through evolution.

But, when demonstrating the basics of the power of natural selection, none of that matters so much. The core component: the selection process, itself, is non-random. And, that is sufficient to dismiss the argument that "Evolution is random".

We can say evoluion is "unguided" to mean there is no higher intelligence involved in guiding it. But, in another context, evolution is kinda-sorta "guided" through an unintelligent, natural algorithmic process.
 
For all intents and purposes we could consider mutations "random". Technically, they do have causes. And, yes, the rate of mutation, itself, could be adjusted through evolution.

But, when demonstrating the basics of the power of natural selection, none of that matters so much. The core component: the selection process, itself, is non-random. And, that is sufficient to dismiss the argument that "Evolution is random".

We can say evoluion is "unguided" to mean there is no higher intelligence involved in guiding it. But, in another context, evolution is kinda-sorta "guided" through an unintelligent, natural algorithmic process.

No worries, I wasn't alluding to some guiding mechanism, but I recall many years ago reading a concept that suggested that somewhere in the genetic coding there is pre-dispostion for increased mutations as a life form becomes stressed within its environment.

It was trying explain why we seem to see explosions of evolutionary processes in the fossil record rather than the steady progression would expect from pure drift
 
I owe a thanks to Wow and Mg. I was trying to stress that evolution as a whole is not a completely random process, but that only certain parts of it are. I was unsure of how to word this, and I obviously came up short. Thanks guys for the clarification.
 
If an impersonal, random natural selection can select the most beneficial genes already existing in a given population, then it should be very easy to produce evolved organisms in a laboratory environment, even by forcing manufactured mutations. All of the traits contingent upon the variables such as fitness, survivability, reproduction, and environment would be easily controlled. Evolutionist writers have openly claimed that mutations are very easily induced by radiation, chemicals, temperature, food, etc. Are you willing to cite any evidence of a prepared and artificial environment, wherein these processes have been found to produce viable new organisms known to evolve through an induced natural selection? Please cite research location for perusal. Thanks.

Nylonase is a perfect example. After being found in the wild, an experiment was set up with a different bacteria to see if they could evolve the ability to digest nylon. And they did, though in a slightly different way to the original.

This article on Talk.Origins describes it much better, and has all the reference citations you need to look further.
 
I cannot post links yet, but if you do a Google search for "bacteria evolve citrate" you will find several science articles about this research. I am almost positive that a few of them link to the actual study. If you are still having trouble finding the study, I should be able to post links soon, so just ask and I will link to it.

Here's the full paper from PNAS.
 
This is the perfect example of the impossibility of evolutionary development in living organisms driving the creation and progression of any living species, which you are forced to contend with if you adhere to a Darwinian worldview. It is likened to baking powder being mixed with water as opposed to vinegar. The baking powder does not choose to react differently from one to the other. It simply is forced to.

In an attempt to insist that the E. coli evolved the ability to metabolize citrate, whereas it supposedly could not do so before, this is clearly not the case. Because the natural cycle of TCA generates and utilizes citrate in a normal metabolism of carbohydrates, the existence of the TCA cycle in all non-dependant living things is very complex, involving many different enzymes and cofactors that are needed in the biochemistry of a cell. Chemical reaction is not Darwinian evolution!

As I have stated previously, the Internet disallows the claims of "so-called science" to go uninvestigated. Would you dispute this quote? "Never mind that E. coli can normally digest citrate in anaerobic conditions and that being able to digest citrate in aerobic conditions is a very common ability in many different bacterial species. Also never mind that aerobic citrate metabolism has been reported in E. coli before so this wasn’t the first time it “evolved”. Ignore the fact that E. coli already has a suite of enzymes to metabolize citrate and all its missing is a way of getting citrate molecules across its cell membrane in the presence of oxygen."

When Richard Lenski began to breed his bacteria he had hopes of getting a random and unguided increase in complexity, or, a real observable evolution in a laboratory setting. Doing so for more than 40,000 generations, with all sorts of selective environments, he clearly failed to demonstrate the emergence of a new species or even a truly spontaneous complexity. He showed that the bacteria did adapt to their environment, but all of the bacteria were not only still bacteria, they clearly remained the same type of bacteria.

And quite obviously, this is not at all what Darwinian Theory proposes. This sort of variation is what we witness everyday as exemplified in hair color, flower color, dog breeds, and finch beaks. No one disputes these sorts of genetic variations. But they do not change the sort of thing the organism is: the human remains a human, the rose a flower, the dog, a canine, and the finch a bird and more specifically, still a finch bird.

As I read the PNSA article, I noted various contradictory statements that I found therein. Such as: "The long-delayed and unique evolution of this function might indicate the involvement of some extremely rare mutation. Alternately, it may involve an ordinary mutation, but one whose physical occurrence or phenotypic expression is contingent on prior mutations in that population."

I am curious to know what is considered a rare mutation as opposed to an ordinary mutation. And if the environment remained the same, would not all of the mutations have been "contingent on prior mutations in that population"? Admittedly, there were no mutations prior to gen. #30,000. By their own definition, "selection requires heritable variation generated by random mutation, and even beneficial mutations may be lost by random drift." Heritable variation is passed down and not random.

What is witnessed by this type of research proves what Michael Behe called "The Edge of Evolution", a limit. In what is commonly espoused in Darwinian evolution, much more than these results are proposed. It declares that there must be enough directional change, one after another through many successive generations, to change what was once a unicellular organism into the various life forms witnessed today. This example of "evolution" does not display a viable mechanism and this mutation does not display special change.

This is what Michael Behe likens to "trench warfare, wherein the role of mutations in antibiotic resistance and pathogen resistance, destroys some of the functionality of the target or host to overcome susceptibility. It’s like putting chewing gum in a mechanical watch; it’s not the way the watch could have been created." Through single mutations, such as malarial resistance, as stated previously, which in its homozygous form, confers the sickle cell disease, in antibiotic resistance and so forth, we do not see mutations accumulating to produce a new species, in neither form nor function. As a matter of fact, we witness that the majority of mutations we do see are quite negative, and overwhelmingly deleterious to the organism involved.

Time after time, what is realized within the confines of a laboratory setting is later found to be inviable when the environment is not so favorable. Such is the case of antibiotic resistance changes. Those that seemingly may not harm the organism, in fact weakens the organism in any other environment except the specific one in which that change helped it survive. The article closes with this as part of a summation of the research: "If the Cit+ lineage is indeed evolving into a new species, then we expect, with time, that more and more of the beneficial mutations substituted in that lineage would be detrimental in the ecological and genetic context of its Cit− progenitor."

It is interesting that on the PBS program "NOW" in December of 2004, Richard Dawkins said that "Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening." I could not find a response from him on what he thinks of this specific research. It is very recent and there is not much on it yet.

The moral of this story? After many thousands of generations, the E.coli bacteria remain E.coli. Fruit flies forced into mutating remain fruit flies. The edge of evolution has a name: biological stasis. It will go this far and no further. I am waiting for the research about the research that we all know will be coming. Let's look at all the evidence in an unbiased light and see the truth.

Does the scientific consensus overwhelmingly support evolution? Yes, it does. They are overwhelmingly of a Darwinian worldview. They must accept evolution!
 
Garry, I won't get into details, just yet, but your last post sounds like an Argument from Ignorance. Just because a bunch of people (you, Behe, etc.) can't figure out how something evolved, does NOT mean someone else won't eventually figure it out.

Behe's "Edge of Evolution" limit is not a law of physics. There is no reason to think life could not find a creative way around the "limit". We just need to find it....

....And (more importantly) we make new discoveries as we do. Behe's arguments do not seem to lead to new discoveries: Nothing profound or insightful in understanding how life works.
Although Evolutions does not have an answer to all its questions, yet, it can be used as a framework for doing science. It can be used to inform us of how to solve problems.

Can you prove me wrong? Can you demonstrate how Behe's limits are not just a dead-end and a waste of time?
 
And quite obviously, this is not at all what Darwinian Theory proposes.
And, for the record, you are wrong, here. That is everything Darwinian Theory proposes!! Nothing much more. Certainly nothing less.

But, I think I see what the problem might be. You've been mislead. You've probably been taught that there is some sort-of empirical difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution, and all that. If that is the case, you've been taught wrong. What you might call "macro-evolution" is simply the result of a lot of "micro-evolutions". It creates the illusion of "big changes", from our point of view. But, in reality, it was all a bunch of small ones.
 
This is the perfect example of the impossibility of evolutionary development in living organisms driving the creation and progression of any living species, which you are forced to contend with if you adhere to a Darwinian worldview.

Huh? Try to make scientifically precise statements rather than emotionally laden but otherwise empty pronouncements.

It is likened to baking powder being mixed with water as opposed to vinegar. The baking powder does not choose* to react differently from one to the other. It simply is forced to.

Poor analogy since water, baking powder nor vinegar is alive. Better analogies might be taking a fish out of water and forcing it to absorb oxygen directly from the air through its gills or forcing a lion to eat only grass and leaves. *Also, are you really suggesting that baking powder has free will?

In an attempt to insist that the E. coli evolved the ability to metabolize citrate, whereas it supposedly could not do so before, this is clearly not the case. Because the natural cycle of TCA generates and utilizes citrate in a normal metabolism of carbohydrates, the existence of the TCA cycle in all non-dependant living things is very complex, involving many different enzymes and cofactors that are needed in the biochemistry of a cell. Chemical reaction is not Darwinian evolution!

Bolded - Nope. From here
But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations - the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. coli normally cannot use.

Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species.
The citrate-using mutants increased in population size and diversity.

As I have stated previously, the Internet disallows the claims of "so-called science" to go uninvestigated.

What is "so-called-science" and who is preventing it from going investigated? The Internet allows people to post that the Holocaust never happened or that George Bush remotely piloted the planes into the WTC. How exactly are the investigations into E. coli experiments supposedly being quashed?

Would you dispute this quote? "Never mind that E. coli can normally digest citrate in anaerobic conditions and that being able to digest citrate in aerobic conditions is a very common ability in many different bacterial species. Also never mind that aerobic citrate metabolism has been reported in E. coli before so this wasn’t the first time it “evolved”. Ignore the fact that E. coli already has a suite of enzymes to metabolize citrate and all its missing is a way of getting citrate molecules across its cell membrane in the presence of oxygen."

I would.
1. Do you have any citations to go with that quote?
2. You didn't cite it, but a Google search showed it's from Uncommon Descent an ID blog.
3. It's a blog post by Dave Scot who I wouldn't trust to get the weather correct if he opened the door and walked outside.

When Richard Lenski began to breed his bacteria he had hopes of getting a random and unguided increase in complexity, or, a real observable evolution in a laboratory setting. Doing so for more than 40,000 generations, with all sorts of selective environments, he clearly failed to demonstrate the emergence of a new species or even a truly spontaneous complexity. He showed that the bacteria did adapt to their environment, but all of the bacteria were not only still bacteria, they clearly remained the same type of bacteria.

Tell me. Do you know how many species of bacteria there are? Saying "it's still a bacteria" is like saying "it's still a beetle" only more vacuous.

- I have to break this up and get some work done. More later.
 
"Never mind that E. coli can normally digest citrate in anaerobic conditions and that being able to digest citrate in aerobic conditions is a very common ability in many different bacterial species.
Yes it can. So? Anaerobic and Aerobic metabolism are vastly different processes.
Also never mind that aerobic citrate metabolism has been reported in E. coli before so this wasn’t the first time it “evolved”.
So what? This strain did not have this ability and it formed entirely new genes to do so that was different from the other strains.

Ignore the fact that E. coli already has a suite of enzymes to metabolize citrate and all its missing is a way of getting citrate molecules across its cell membrane in the presence of oxygen."
Which is as stupid as statement as saying that that, "a car has an engine, all that was missing is the fuel line, fuel pump and fuel tank." The generation of the genes and the insuing change in phenotype that led to the citrate transport is evolution in action.

This continues to be Creationists moving the goalpost and franticly working on their denialism.
 
continuing...

...they clearly remained the same type of bacteria.

And quite obviously, this is not at all what Darwinian Theory proposes. This sort of variation is what we witness everyday as exemplified in hair color, flower color, dog breeds, and finch beaks. No one disputes these sorts of genetic variations. But they do not change the sort of thing the organism is: the human remains a human, the rose a flower, the dog, a canine, and the finch a bird and more specifically, still a finch bird.

I already pointed out the poverty of your baking powder analogy above and this one is just as bad for the same reason. E coli evolving the ability to metabolize citrate in an oxic environment is more analgous to the fish breathing air with its gills or the lion living off grass and leaves mentioned above.

Also the assertion that "a rose is still a flower" or "a finch is still a bird" can only be due to a profound ignorance of how phylogenetic relationships are determined and the phylogenetic tree built. The Tree of Life web project is a fascinating and informative resource for learning how taxonomic groups and their relationships have been established and what sort of evidence supports them.

As I read the PNSA article, I noted various contradictory statements that I found therein. Such as: "The long-delayed and unique evolution of this function might indicate the involvement of some extremely rare mutation. Alternately, it may involve an ordinary mutation, but one whose physical occurrence or phenotypic expression is contingent on prior mutations in that population."

I am curious to know what is considered a rare mutation as opposed to an ordinary mutation. And if the environment remained the same, would not all of the mutations have been "contingent on prior mutations in that population"? Admittedly, there were no mutations prior to gen. #30,000. By their own definition, "selection requires heritable variation generated by random mutation, and even beneficial mutations may be lost by random drift." Heritable variation is passed down and not random.

Google is your friend. I typed in Lenski's name and found his Michigan State home page with his e-mail address. I'm sure if you send him a polite e-mail asking him to clarify what was meant in the paper.

Or, you could have read more of the paper than just the abstract and the first paragraph of the introduction. Under the historical contingency section it explains a rare mutation within the context of the experiment.
PNAS article said:
Historical Contingency in the Evolution of Cit+. We performed three experiments to test whether the evolution of the Cit+ function required an unusually rare mutation or, alternatively, was historically contingent and depended on the prior evolution of a certain genetic background. All three experiments used clones sampled from many generations of population Ara-3 to replay evolution starting from different genetic backgrounds. The two hypotheses make distinct predictions about the propensity of these backgrounds to re-evolve the Cit+ phenotype (Fig. 3). According to the rare-mutation hypothesis, Cit+ variants should evolve at the same low rate regardless of the generation of origin of the clone with which a replay started. By contrast, the historical-contingency hypothesis predicts that the mutation rate to Cit+ should increase after some potentiating genetic background has evolved. Thus, Cit+ variants should re-evolve more often in the replays using clones sampled from later generations of the Ara-3 population.

What is witnessed by this type of research proves what Michael Behe called "The Edge of Evolution", a limit. In what is commonly espoused in Darwinian evolution, much more than these results are proposed. It declares that there must be enough directional change, one after another through many successive generations, to change what was once a unicellular organism into the various life forms witnessed today. This example of "evolution" does not display a viable mechanism and this mutation does not display special change.

Since the experiment was designed to see what role previous mutations would play in successive generations and whether E coli could evolve to metabolize citrate - not to turn it into a nematode or diatom as you seem to expect it to have - it was a spectacular sucess, despite what you or Behe or any other critic says.

This is what Michael Behe likens to "trench warfare, wherein the role of mutations in antibiotic resistance and pathogen resistance, destroys some of the functionality of the target or host to overcome susceptibility. It’s like putting chewing gum in a mechanical watch; it’s not the way the watch could have been created." Through single mutations, such as malarial resistance, as stated previously, which in its homozygous form, confers the sickle cell disease, in antibiotic resistance and so forth, we do not see mutations accumulating to produce a new species, in neither form nor function. As a matter of fact, we witness that the majority of mutations we do see are quite negative, and overwhelmingly deleterious to the organism involved.

And yet when you step out of the microbiology box that Behe would like us to stay in, and return to the whale evolution page I linked to above, you can see that we have genetically determined a relationship between whales and artiodactyls and that we really don't see that much novelty. The nasal cavity has moved to the dorsal. Forelimbs have the same bones terrestrial mammals have. Hindlimbs have disappeared and the tail has elongated. About the only real innovation is the sonar melon found in toothed whales. The same is true for many other taxons and the advent of new species. The wheel wasn't reinvented every time.

ime after time, what is realized within the confines of a laboratory setting is later found to be inviable when the environment is not so favorable. Such is the case of antibiotic resistance changes. Those that seemingly may not harm the organism, in fact weakens the organism in any other environment except the specific one in which that change helped it survive. The article closes with this as part of a summation of the research: "If the Cit+ lineage is indeed evolving into a new species, then we expect, with time, that more and more of the beneficial mutations substituted in that lineage would be detrimental in the ecological and genetic context of its Cit− progenitor."

Ummm, you do know why the Mammoth and Mastadon went extinct right? It wasn't just human predation. They were overspecialized. Now imagine the specialization that occurs in bateria where you might have one species that only resides in the intestines of only one species of mouse. The predictions about Cit+ aren't entirely surprising. The environment selects for mutations beneficial within it, not any possible environment.

It is interesting that on the PBS program "NOW" in December of 2004, Richard Dawkins said that "Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening." I could not find a response from him on what he thinks of this specific research. It is very recent and there is not much on it yet.

I'm sure he's weighed in on it and I think what he's referring to is large scale speciation, not just the advent of new species, which has been observed.
Interview
Observed speciation
Some more observed speciation

The moral of this story? After many thousands of generations, the E.coli bacteria remain E.coli. Fruit flies forced into mutating remain fruit flies. The edge of evolution has a name: biological stasis. It will go this far and no further. I am waiting for the research about the research that we all know will be coming. Let's look at all the evidence in an unbiased light and see the truth.

Does the scientific consensus overwhelmingly support evolution? Yes, it does. They are overwhelmingly of a Darwinian worldview. They must accept evolution!

You might want to save the triumphalism until after you've read some of the stuff I've linked to...
 
I just skimmed some of the most recent responses and cannot commit to an in depth reply right away, but I would like to make a few observations in comment.

SinnerMan highlighted this quote of mine: “It is likened to baking powder being mixed with water as opposed to vinegar. The baking powder does not choose to react differently from one to the other. It simply is forced to.” And then retorted “Poor analogy since water, baking powder nor vinegar is alive.” But, isn’t this how life began according to evolutionists? Sorry, the dreaded “C” word!

When you make a comparison such as this: “Tell me. Do you know how many species of bacteria there are? Saying "it's still a bacteria" is like saying "it's still a beetle" only more vacuous.” I would respond by saying that what is being posited by Lenski is like putting a moon roof on a Cadillac and calling it a space shuttle!

Admittedly, I baited you guys into committing yourselves to this medal winning example of Darwinism when I asked: “Are you willing to cite any evidence of a prepared and artificial environment, wherein these processes have been found to produce viable new organisms known to evolve through an induced natural selection

Not surprisingly, you immediately cited one of the most recently released documents in defense of “the proof of evolution”. And why? Because it has not yet been studied in depth and there are few opposing views thus far. Your greatest problem now becomes: What will present and future research prove that Lenski actually accomplished? Another “Haeckel’s embryos” I would venture to say.

I cannot help but be amused by the willingness of Darwinites that so eagerly accept human experimentation within the confines of a controlled laboratory setting, and gloat that “naturalistic evolution” has been witnessed. Does natural selection change the environment every time an organism reaches any given point in its evolutionary progression? Does it re-supply the food source? Does it save the ancestoral organisms for another chance at a later time? Does Intelligent Design ring a bell? Evolutionists are so predictable!
 
But, isn’t this how life began according to evolutionists? Sorry, the dreaded “C” word!
It is isn't.

Abiogenesis is NOT evolution. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

I would respond by saying that what is being posited by Lenski is like putting a moon roof on a Cadillac and calling it a space shuttle!
And you would be completely and utterly wrong. It is an additional major function that an organism did not previously have.

It would be equivalent to a car being able to burn hydrogen instead of gasoline.To an ignorant layperson, the car sure looks the same but just about everything internally is new.

What will present and future research prove that Lenski actually accomplished?
We don't know. Unlike ID-iots and Creationists, scientists will attempt to reproduce the results and continue to study this instead of attacking someone's work based solely on their dogmatic bias and ignorance on what they are attacking.
Another “Haeckel’s embryos” I would venture to say.
While possible, it is very unlikely since all the samples are actually open for anyone doing research to examine themselves. Oh, was that a pathetic attempt to attack someone's reputation because you don't like the results?
I cannot help but be amused by the willingness of Darwinites that so eagerly accept human experimentation within the confines of a controlled laboratory setting, and gloat that “naturalistic evolution” has been witnessed.
Be as amused as you want since all you are doing to waving away evidence without any justification but your own ignorance and dogma. Science will march on as the Dark Age, stone age morons sit in the caves gloating that magic man gives them magic power while laughing at those people developing modern medicine, cures for diseases and genetic engineering.
Does natural selection change the environment every time an organism reaches any given point in its evolutionary progression?
It actually may. It depends entirely on the organism and environment.
Does it re-supply the food source?
Does what re-supply food sources?
Does it save the ancestoral organisms for another chance at a later time?
Doubtful.
Does Intelligent Design ring a bell? Evolutionists are so predictable!
That was not a coherent thought process. While not very surprising for an ID-iot, please attempt again to sound less ignorant about something you are attacking.
 
So, Garry, I have a simple question:

If evolution is so utterly flawed and laughable, then what alternative would you propose, that fits all the evidence better, and also helps us continue to make new discoveries?

Please answer the question in a manner that would appeal to professional scientists, who are very interested in making new discoveries about life.

Thanks!
 

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