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Evolution answers

I'm less than impressed by that link.

Yes, there have been cases of scientific fraud in the field of evolution. So what? There have been far more cases of fraud in the field of medicine than evolution, but we don't conclude that medicine is invalid.

That site begins by saying...


First of all, if you look up this quote in the Origin of Species (free eBook), it turns out that he's asking this question rhetorically, as an introduction to the answers he's about to give.

If you're interested in how he answers this question, here it is...
ON THE ABSENCE OR RARITY OF TRANSITIONAL VARIETIES.

As natural selection acts solely by the preservation of profitable
modifications, each new form will tend in a fully-stocked country to
take the place of, and finally to exterminate, its own less improved
parent or other less-favoured forms with which it comes into
competition. Thus extinction and natural selection will, as we have
seen, go hand in hand. Hence, if we look at each species as descended
from some other unknown form, both the parent and all the transitional
varieties will generally have been exterminated by the very process of
formation and perfection of the new form.

But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed,
why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of
the earth? It will be much more convenient to discuss this question in
the chapter on the Imperfection of the geological record; and I will
here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record
being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed; the
imperfection of the record being chiefly due to organic beings not
inhabiting profound depths of the sea, and to their remains being
embedded and preserved to a future age only in masses of sediment
sufficiently thick and extensive to withstand an enormous amount of
future degradation; and such fossiliferous masses can be accumulated
only where much sediment is deposited on the shallow bed of the sea,
whilst it slowly subsides. These contingencies will concur only rarely,
and after enormously long intervals. Whilst the bed of the sea
is stationary or is rising, or when very little sediment is being
deposited, there will be blanks in our geological history. The crust of
the earth is a vast museum; but the natural collections have been made
only at intervals of time immensely remote.

But it may be urged that when several closely-allied species inhabit
the same territory we surely ought to find at the present time many
transitional forms. Let us take a simple case: in travelling from north
to south over a continent, we generally meet at successive intervals
with closely allied or representative species, evidently filling nearly
the same place in the natural economy of the land. These representative
species often meet and interlock; and as the one becomes rarer and
rarer, the other becomes more and more frequent, till the one replaces
the other. But if we compare these species where they intermingle, they
are generally as absolutely distinct from each other in every detail of
structure as are specimens taken from the metropolis inhabited by each.
By my theory these allied species have descended from a common parent;
and during the process of modification, each has become adapted to
the conditions of life of its own region, and has supplanted and
exterminated its original parent and all the transitional varieties
between its past and present states. Hence we ought not to expect at
the present time to meet with numerous transitional varieties in each
region, though they must have existed there, and may be embedded
there in a fossil condition. But in the intermediate region, having
intermediate conditions of life, why do we not now find closely-linking
intermediate varieties? This difficulty for a long time quite confounded
me. But I think it can be in large part explained.

In the first place we should be extremely cautious in inferring, because
an area is now continuous, that it has been continuous during a long
period. Geology would lead us to believe that almost every continent has
been broken up into islands even during the later tertiary periods;
and in such islands distinct species might have been separately formed
without the possibility of intermediate varieties existing in the
intermediate zones. By changes in the form of the land and of climate,
marine areas now continuous must often have existed within recent times
in a far less continuous and uniform condition than at present. But I
will pass over this way of escaping from the difficulty; for I believe
that many perfectly defined species have been formed on strictly
continuous areas; though I do not doubt that the formerly broken
condition of areas now continuous has played an important part in the
formation of new species, more especially with freely-crossing and
wandering animals.

In looking at species as they are now distributed over a wide area,
we generally find them tolerably numerous over a large territory, then
becoming somewhat abruptly rarer and rarer on the confines, and finally
disappearing. Hence the neutral territory between two representative
species is generally narrow in comparison with the territory proper to
each. We see the same fact in ascending mountains, and sometimes it
is quite remarkable how abruptly, as Alph. De Candolle has observed,
a common alpine species disappears. The same fact has been noticed by
Forbes in sounding the depths of the sea with the dredge. To those who
look at climate and the physical conditions of life as the all-important
elements of distribution, these facts ought to cause surprise, as
climate and height or depth graduate away insensibly. But when we
bear in mind that almost every species, even in its metropolis, would
increase immensely in numbers, were it not for other competing species;
that nearly all either prey on or serve as prey for others; in short,
that each organic being is either directly or indirectly related in
the most important manner to other organic beings, we must see that the
range of the inhabitants of any country by no means exclusively depends
on insensibly changing physical conditions, but in large part on the
presence of other species, on which it depends, or by which it is
destroyed, or with which it comes into competition; and as these species
are already defined objects (however they may have become so), not
blending one into another by insensible gradations, the range of any one
species, depending as it does on the range of others, will tend to be
sharply defined. Moreover, each species on the confines of its range,
where it exists in lessened numbers, will, during fluctuations in the
number of its enemies or of its prey, or in the seasons, be extremely
liable to utter extermination; and thus its geographical range will come
to be still more sharply defined.

If I am right in believing that allied or representative species, when
inhabiting a continuous area, are generally so distributed that each
has a wide range, with a comparatively narrow neutral territory between
them, in which they become rather suddenly rarer and rarer; then, as
varieties do not essentially differ from species, the same rule will
probably apply to both; and if we in imagination adapt a varying species
to a very large area, we shall have to adapt two varieties to two
large areas, and a third variety to a narrow intermediate zone. The
intermediate variety, consequently, will exist in lesser numbers from
inhabiting a narrow and lesser area; and practically, as far as I can
make out, this rule holds good with varieties in a state of nature. I
have met with striking instances of the rule in the case of varieties
intermediate between well-marked varieties in the genus Balanus. And it
would appear from information given me by Mr. Watson, Dr. Asa Gray, and
Mr. Wollaston, that generally when varieties intermediate between two
other forms occur, they are much rarer numerically than the forms which
they connect. Now, if we may trust these facts and inferences, and
therefore conclude that varieties linking two other varieties together
have generally existed in lesser numbers than the forms which they
connect, then, I think, we can understand why intermediate varieties
should not endure for very long periods;--why as a general rule they
should be exterminated and disappear, sooner than the forms which they
originally linked together.

For any form existing in lesser numbers would, as already remarked,
run a greater chance of being exterminated than one existing in large
numbers; and in this particular case the intermediate form would be
eminently liable to the inroads of closely allied forms existing on both
sides of it. But a far more important consideration, as I believe, is
that, during the process of further modification, by which two varieties
are supposed on my theory to be converted and perfected into two
distinct species, the two which exist in larger numbers from inhabiting
larger areas, will have a great advantage over the intermediate variety,
which exists in smaller numbers in a narrow and intermediate zone.
For forms existing in larger numbers will always have a better chance,
within any given period, of presenting further favourable variations for
natural selection to seize on, than will the rarer forms which exist in
lesser numbers. Hence, the more common forms, in the race for life, will
tend to beat and supplant the less common forms, for these will be
more slowly modified and improved. It is the same principle which, as
I believe, accounts for the common species in each country, as shown
in the second chapter, presenting on an average a greater number of
well-marked varieties than do the rarer species. I may illustrate what I
mean by supposing three varieties of sheep to be kept, one adapted to an
extensive mountainous region; a second to a comparatively narrow, hilly
tract; and a third to wide plains at the base; and that the inhabitants
are all trying with equal steadiness and skill to improve their stocks
by selection; the chances in this case will be strongly in favour of the
great holders on the mountains or on the plains improving their breeds
more quickly than the small holders on the intermediate narrow, hilly
tract; and consequently the improved mountain or plain breed will soon
take the place of the less improved hill breed; and thus the two breeds,
which originally existed in greater numbers, will come into close
contact with each other, without the interposition of the supplanted,
intermediate hill-variety.

To sum up, I believe that species come to be tolerably well-defined
objects, and do not at any one period present an inextricable chaos of
varying and intermediate links: firstly, because new varieties are
very slowly formed, for variation is a very slow process, and natural
selection can do nothing until favourable variations chance to occur,
and until a place in the natural polity of the country can be better
filled by some modification of some one or more of its inhabitants.
And such new places will depend on slow changes of climate, or on the
occasional immigration of new inhabitants, and, probably, in a still
more important degree, on some of the old inhabitants becoming slowly
modified, with the new forms thus produced and the old ones acting and
reacting on each other. So that, in any one region and at any one time,
we ought only to see a few species presenting slight modifications of
structure in some degree permanent; and this assuredly we do see.

Secondly, areas now continuous must often have existed within the
recent period in isolated portions, in which many forms, more especially
amongst the classes which unite for each birth and wander much, may have
separately been rendered sufficiently distinct to rank as representative
species. In this case, intermediate varieties between the several
representative species and their common parent, must formerly have
existed in each broken portion of the land, but these links will
have been supplanted and exterminated during the process of natural
selection, so that they will no longer exist in a living state.

Thirdly, when two or more varieties have been formed in different
portions of a strictly continuous area, intermediate varieties will, it
is probable, at first have been formed in the intermediate zones, but
they will generally have had a short duration. For these intermediate
varieties will, from reasons already assigned (namely from what we know
of the actual distribution of closely allied or representative species,
and likewise of acknowledged varieties), exist in the intermediate zones
in lesser numbers than the varieties which they tend to connect. From
this cause alone the intermediate varieties will be liable to accidental
extermination; and during the process of further modification through
natural selection, they will almost certainly be beaten and supplanted
by the forms which they connect; for these from existing in greater
numbers will, in the aggregate, present more variation, and thus be
further improved through natural selection and gain further advantages.

Lastly, looking not to any one time, but to all time, if my theory be
true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking most closely all the
species of the same group together, must assuredly have existed; but the
very process of natural selection constantly tends, as has been so often
remarked, to exterminate the parent forms and the intermediate links.
Consequently evidence of their former existence could be found only
amongst fossil remains, which are preserved, as we shall in a future
chapter attempt to show, in an extremely imperfect and intermittent
record.

(Placed in a spoiler to avoid flooding the thread with a wall-of-text.)


The next point it makes is about Ernst Haeckel's "fraudulent" embryo drawings...


It sounds shocking that embryo pictures that are known to have been inaccurate for over a century still appear in modern biology textbooks. But a quick dip into Wikipedia reveals a benign reason for this...
Some version of Haeckel’s drawings can be found in many modern biology textbooks in discussions of the history of embryology, with clarification that these are no longer considered valid
Hardly the conspiracy of fraud that the article makes it appear to be.

The next topic of discussion is "Piltdown man, deliberate evolution fraud". Fraud, yes. But not one perpetuated by the scientific community. Instead, the scientific community was the victim of the fraud.

Then it goes on to talk about "Nebraska Man. False evolutionary model made from a pigs tooth. The pig was still alive too." This is not an example of scientific fraud of any kind. In fact, the claim that an "evolutionary model" was created on the basis of that tooth is a lie.

What happened was that Dr. Osborn and Dr. William D. Matthew mistakenly classified a discovered tooth as belonging to an unknown anthropoid ape with a closer connection to humans than any existing ape. Most of the scientific community regarded the findings as inconclusive, and the two researchers later retracted their statement when they realized their mistake. That's the entire story as far as the scientific community was involved.

But before the retraction was made a newspaper published an artist's impression of what the ape might have looked like, a picture that Dr. Osborn himself described as "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate". But the damage was done, and the general public got the wrong impression that the image was what the scientists had concluded that the ape would have looked like from the basis of nothing more than a tooth.

But even though the image was not produced by scientists or "evolutionists", the page you link to falsely claims that "single tooth was all it took for evolutionists to come up with the drawing you see above".

I could go on and criticize every point which that site gets wrong, but I don't think that would be a productive use of my time.

But that is exactly the point. Evolutionary Theories are full of retractions, false hypothesis and misleading conclusions. There were so many missing links discovered but none confirmed. Someone once said micro-evolution ( Variations within a species) has some scientific basis because it accepts the differentiation and diversification of species. The rest is all speculation and conjectures.
 
Evolution is an observable fact that even US Evagelical creationists do not deny. They cannot provide demonstratable limits to evolution by natural selection, nor provide anything approaching an operational definition of Biblical kinds that they consider such limits.

That all life on this planet had a common ancestor has had such wide explanatory power with each new discovery, we may call that a fact. This view is uncontroversial among experts.
 
justintime said:
Evolutionary Theories are full of retractions, false hypothesis and misleading conclusions.
When you sort through the trash heap of any field of science you'll find the same thing. This is an argument FOR science, not against it--science is one of the very few human institutions that's willing to throw out such charished ideas once they've been proven wrong.

There were so many missing links discovered but none confirmed.
This is a flat-out lie, based on the absurd idea that evolutionary theory demands we find every single organism that ever existed during speciation events. We have found so-called missing links. We've found so many of them that finding one more isn't significant. Doing what you say is impossible is, in actual fact, run of the mill stuff for researchers.

Someone once said micro-evolution ( Variations within a species) has some scientific basis because it accepts the differentiation and diversification of species. The rest is all speculation and conjectures.
Funny how you'll acept "someone"'s authority on the topic, but not numerous actual researchers.

Anyway, it's a nonsensical quote. It's akin to saying "Well, I know a car can drive six inches--but driving six miles is just speculative!" If you knew enough to be able to actually criticize evolutionary theory you'd know that.
 
Evolution is an observable fact that even US Evagelical creationists do not deny. They cannot provide demonstratable limits to evolution by natural selection, nor provide anything approaching an operational definition of Biblical kinds that they consider such limits.

That all life on this planet had a common ancestor has had such wide explanatory power with each new discovery, we may call that a fact. This view is uncontroversial among experts.

I provided a link where even the theory of the origin of life is questionable raised by a world leading evolutionary biologist Dean Keyon.
Another Evolutionary Biologist Finally Rejects The Bogus Theory of Evolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2RZzyFTTXo

Sure evolution and life are observable. But the theories trying to explain it are full of speculation and conjectures.
 
justintime said:
I provided a link where even the theory of the origin of life is questionable raised by a world leading evolutionary biologist Dean Keyon.
Which was subsequently ripped to shreds.

Sure evolution and life are observable. But the theories trying to explain it are full of speculation and conjectures.
Considering your demonstrated ignorance of evolutionary biology and paleontology, you are not qualified to make this statement.
 
But that is exactly the point. Evolutionary Theories are full of retractions, false hypothesis and misleading conclusions.
They're scientists, not Jesus. They've made no claim to infallibility, nor is there any reason to hold them to such a standard.

The rest is all speculation and conjectures.
The irony....
 
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They're scientists, not Jesus. They've made no claim to infallibility, nor is there any reason to hold them to such a standard.


The irony....

I am sure scientists have their Jesus moments too. They call it serendipity. Unfortunately it is far and few between scientific hypothesis and repetitious methodology.
 
But that is exactly the point. Evolutionary Theories are full of retractions, false hypothesis and misleading conclusions. There were so many missing links discovered but none confirmed.

This is not true. Either you are being dishonest or you are spouting off without bothering to research what you are talking about.
 
Evolutionary Theories are full of retractions, false hypothesis and misleading conclusions.

That's how science progresses. You start off knowing next-to-nothing and gradually stumble your way towards the truth. There's always a few wrong-turns and pratfalls along the way, but you're always making progress, your understanding of the subject is always getting closer and closer to the truth.

The alternative is to just make up an untestable explanation (such as God-did-it) and pretend to have found the truth.

There were so many missing links discovered but none confirmed.

What exactly do you mean by "missing link"? If you're talking about transitional fossils between humans and apes, then there are lots of confirmed "missing links"

Someone once said micro-evolution ( Variations within a species) has some scientific basis because it accepts the differentiation and diversification of species.

To quote from the TalkOrigins archive:
Microevolution is defined as the change of allele frequencies (that is, genetic variation due to processes such as selection, mutation, genetic drift, or even migration) within a population.
[...]
Macroevolution is defined as evolutionary change at the species level or higher, that is, the formation of new species, new genera, and so forth. Speciation has also been observed.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB902.html

The rest is all speculation and conjectures.

Backed up by evidence and research.
 
I am sure scientists have their Jesus moments too. They call it serendipity.

Funny. No scientist I've ever met says anything like that. When something "clicks", so to speak, it's the START of our work. Ask Akri what happens if she says something that clicks with me. :D We scientists LIVE for such moments, when the universe seems to make sense and we can get to the heart of the issues--but again, we only ever view them as the very first steps down a very, very long road.

Please name the missing-link scientists have confirmed.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2001/PSCF3-01Morton.html
http://palaeos.com/metazoa/mollusca/phylogeny.html
http://www.palaeos.org/index.php?title=Mollusca&oldid=29420

I'd also recommend the books "The Origine of the Phyla", "Eight Little Piggies", and "Paterns and Processes in Vertebrate Evolution" to see more (the above were just a handful of links from a Google search for "Transitioanl forms in Molluska"). I will point out that the last book mentioned takes a rather hostile stance on the subject of Punctuated Equilibrium. It doesn't reject it, necessarily, but the authors clearly don't believe it to be as important as Gould did. It's an interesting read for anyone genuinely interested in how scientists work with such large-scale theories.

Bison antiquus is a transitional from between B. latifrons and B. bison. It's an example of a chronospecies, and one that's remarkably well-studied given the importance of B. antiquus to Cenozoic/Quaternary paleontology (B. antiquus serves as an index fossil for the Rancholabrean). The mere existence of chronospecies disproves the idea that no transitional forms have been found; the fact that this one is rather critical to paleontology is simply icing on the cake.
 
I provided a link where even the theory of the origin of life is questionable raised by a world leading evolutionary biologist Dean Keyon.
Another Evolutionary Biologist Finally Rejects The Bogus Theory of Evolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2RZzyFTTXo

Sure evolution and life are observable. But the theories trying to explain it are full of speculation and conjectures.

Yes, and Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis have got a working geologist with a PhD who argues for a young earth. It would be remarkable if we could find no people educated within a field that were in opposition to any paradigm, no matter how established. But these people and their arguments are on the fringe, most of them are in argument with not only evolution but also foundation ideas in geology and astronomy. If there is a parallel of paradim revolution in the history of science, I would like to hear it. And besides creationism makes and tests no theories. The cdesign proponentsists (there's a Keyon reference for you) are an opposition position only.

Speculation and conjecture is the beginning of a grand idea. The foundations of evolution as an explanation for the diversity of life have survived many observations that could have potentially falsified the idea. Evolution by natural selection thus gains the epistemically lofty title of theory. There are no competing narratives in this game. Creationism is a moldy corpse of a centuries dead paradigm being dragged about like a Bernie Lomax.
 
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I posted this elsewhere just this morning.
Gawdzilla said:
Fossil fish discovery shows link from fins to legs

You’ve met the front of Tiktaalik roseae, the fish-like creature that fills an important gap between fish and four-legged, land-based animals. Now, the hindquarters of the 375-million-year-old fossil are having their close-up moment, and they’re showing a pelvis that marks it farther along the evolutionary track from fin to limb.
 
The transitional stuff (or at least of the kind assumed by such questioning) is alive and all around us... flightless cormorants, salamanders, gliding tree mammals...
 

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