Evidence Of A Fly-Over Video?

[BCR]

An Interview from the National Geographic documentary Witness D.C. 9/11 with Porter Goss on the morning of 9/11 is being hailed as possible evidence of the CIT/P4T Pentagon 'fly-over' over at P4T.



The video captures the sound of an 'explosion', followed by a jet flying low overhead.

One thing that's for sure: the explosion is a ground level explosion, therefore it can only be the Pentagon attack. This can not possibly be a sonic boom from a fighter jet, because a sonic boom is only heard at the moment the jet passes by the person. As the plane's speed catches up to the sound waves that are being emitted from the noise created by the said plane, the soundwaves get pushed out the way and you can actually SEE the soundwaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BArpqYspIgU

Not to mention that a fighter jet would most likely not be going supersonic while in the DC area; that would happen over rural America as it scrambles to, say, the Shanksville area.

The explosion on the Porter Goss video clearly comes from ground level and is concentrated and localized, with people on the video turning their heads to the direction of the explosion. The only place where explosion(s) occurred on 9/11 in the DC area is at the Pentagon. So it seems quite certain that the Pentagon is the source of the explosion. So the question is the time.

There is no time or location associated with the video, but by watching it in context on the full NG documentary, the location seems to be the interview site set up for Congressional members following the Capitol evacuation, so this is clearly a post-Pentagon impact event.

In reviewing the radar data up until 11:30am, I find only one instance of a fighter potentially going supersonic for a brief instance, but it is not conclusive.

The time is ~10:52am and could potentially be related to the 'explosion'. However, the plane is headed SSE @ 26,000 feet at a location ~38 nautical miles (38 29 15.086 N, 076 26 06.781 W) from the Capitol at the time. That means it would take ~3.5 minutes for the sound of the 'boom' to reach downtown DC. This is of course assuming that the boom would be heard behind the plane (not an expert in sound dynamics) at all.

This fighter is one of the QUIT fighters out of Langley. Another fighter, presumably one of the BULLY fighters out of Andrews is flying low over downtown DC at ~6,000 feet in a very tight oval turn (relatively slow speed) between 10:58 - 11:01am. It would certainly be consistent with engine noises heard on the video.

I'm not an expert on sonic booms, so I'll defer to the fighter jockey's amongst us. The one thing I am certain of, this is definitely not video evidence of a 'fly-over'.

Fighter low-altitude (< 6500 feet) passes:

10:42am - Andrews fighter taking off

BULLY1, Billy Hutchison - "flies low over the White House and Georgetown" (Touching History, pg 219)

10:58 - 11:01am - Andrews fighter loop

 

[ElMondoHummus]

I'm no expert either, John, but I gotta agree with you. To my admittedly layman's ears, that doesn't sound like a sonic boom either. Plus, the first reaction to the sound was for that guy in the background to scan at ground level, not up in the sky. It's only afterwards that anyone even thinks to look up, and Gross then follows, the cue obviously being that other person scanning the sky.

That's thin argumentation I'm making, I admit that. But, in context with your other information, I too would conclude the same things you have: That this was some event on the ground, and the BULLY jet overhead soon afterwards. The radar data is what's definitive here. I may be totally off base with my impressions regarding the sounds and the reactions on camera, but unless someone's going to argue a stealth aircraft overflight , the radar data's definitive to me.

 

[BCR]

I too would conclude the same things you have: That this was some event on the ground, and the BULLY jet overhead soon afterwards.

I updated above to include another 'potential' BULLY taking off from Andrews at 10:42am. This one is flying over at 2100 feet and seems to be a better candidate for the fighter in the video.

Interesting to say the least.

 

[Oystein]

For what it's worth, here is the National Geographic "Witness D.C. 9/11" documentary:


The scene with Porter Goss starts at 14:22.
Before that, there are images of Congressmen and staff evacuating the Capitol building hurriedly. I don't know if that documentary strings its scenes in strict chronological order, so that context is not conclusive for anything.

If you crank the volume up, you will hear a sound like gunshots once every second, very evenly spaced. My guess is that this is a heavy machine that compacts soil or sand, or drives a pole into the ground at some construction site. But as I think this goes on after the boom, I don't think there's any connection.

Starting at 16:37, there is a jet flyover, this time the fighter is shown in the video, so we know what the fighters sounded like. Another one around 17:05.
This seems to be before the Shanksville event - the voice over says that the fighters are watching out for another hijacked plane, rumoured to be heading for the White House.

 

[BCR]

Here is the live DC television coverage. They do note the BULLY flight out of Andrews at 10:42, but do not report the 'explosion'. The State Department 'car bomb' reporting is well before this.

http://www.archive.org/details/fox5200109111036-1117

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Plus, the first reaction to the sound was for that guy in the background to scan at ground level, not up in the sky.

Three people scanning ground level, as far as I can tell. The man in the baseball cap, another man off in the distance, and a female who stands up behind behind Mr. Goss.

ETA: Also, everyone reacting to the sound reacts as if it came from behind them. The plane that they then react to seems to be in front of them and heading toward them and the sound, and not heading away from the sound.

 

[Oystein]

And here some prose on what Goss did on that morning:

http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/09/14/human_spies/index.html

On the morning of Tuesday, Sept. 11, in a room on the House side of the Capitol, Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., and Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla. -- the chairmen of the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, respectively -- met for breakfast.
...
that all changed, perhaps forever, when a Goss staffer entered the room and handed the former CIA agent a note.

Goss opened it. Two planes had just crashed into the World Trade Center in an apparent terrorist attack. He passed the note to Graham.

They all turned on the TV. Soon they were all evacuated from the Capitol building.

Same story related here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A36091-2002May17

On the morning of Sept. 11, Goss and Graham were having breakfast with a Pakistani general named Mahmud Ahmed -- the soon-to-be-sacked head of Pakistan's intelligence service. Ahmed ran a spy agency notoriously close to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.

A Goss aide handed a note to his boss. Goss read it and handed it to Graham. Soon they would evacuate the Capitol, but not before Goss, the designated speaker pro tempore, symbolically opened the House for one minute.

Historycommons puts it this way:
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091101mahmoodmeeting#a091101mahmoodmeeting

Meeting Interrupted by 9/11 Attacks - Zamir Akram, an accompanying Pakistani diplomat, leaves the room for a break. While outside, he sees a group of Congressional aides gathered around a television set. As Akram walks up to the TV, he sees the second plane crashing into the World Trade Center. He immediately runs back to the meeting to the tell the others. But even as he gets there, a congressional aide comes in to say that Capitol Hill is being evacuated. The aide says, “There is a plane headed this way.” Mahmood and the rest of the Pakistani delegation immediately leave

But on the other hand
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a935treasuryevacuates#a935treasuryevacuates

Government buildings in Washington, DC, are not evacuated prior to the attack on the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. ... Although a slow evacuation of the White House begins around 9:20 a.m. (see (9:22 a.m.) September 11, 2001), it is not until 9:45 that the Secret Service orders people to run from there (see (9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [CNN, 9/11/2001; CNN, 9/12/2001; ABC News, 9/11/2002] Other government buildings, including the Capitol (see 9:48 a.m. September 11, 2001), the Justice Department, the State Department, and the Supreme Court, will not be evacuated until between 9:45 and 10:45 a.m.

So if Goss' breakfast group left the building only after the Pentagon hit, it is clear that we don't hear the Pentagon crash during the outside interview with Goss.
A possibility remains that the participants of that meeting evacuted on their own before a general call was made.

 

[Oystein]

Here is the live DC television coverage. They do note the BULLY flight out of Andrews at 10:42, but do not report the 'explosion'. The State Department 'car bomb' reporting is well before this.

http://www.archive.org/details/fox5200109111036-1117

Does this contain the Goss interview?

 

[BCR]

Does this contain the Goss interview?

No.

 

[jhunter1163]

Seems like even Ranke is disavowing this as evidence of a flyover.

 

[CompusMentus]

<slight derail>

Please, does anyone know, is the 9/11 video from the parking garage at Reagan National Airport available anywhere for veiwing?

Compus

 

[BCR]

Three people scanning ground level, as far as I can tell. The man in the baseball cap, another man off in the distance, and a female who stands up behind behind Mr. Goss.

ETA: Also, everyone reacting to the sound reacts as if it came from behind them. The plane that they then react to seems to be in front of them and heading toward them and the sound, and not heading away from the sound.

That is my perception as well. On the archive footage (marker 33:30), the reporter reports that he heard 'two loud booms' at around 10:15am downtown DC, associates it with an AF jet flying over the WH (sonic booms?).

Although certainly not evidence of a 'fly-over', definitely solid evidence of additional events in DC post-Pentagon.

 

[BCR]

<slight derail>

Please, does anyone know, is the 9/11 video from the parking garage at Reagan National Airport available anywhere for veiwing?

Compus

Sorry, but my budget ran out of money before I got that one from the FBI. I'm not aware of anyone else who has requested it.

 

[CompusMentus]

Sorry, but my budget ran out of money before I got that one from the FBI. I'm not aware of anyone else who has requested it.

I'm sure I saw a still from that video a while ago that showed smoke rising from the roof of the Pentagon on the day.

I've always wondered whether the video could possibly be useful in relation the CIT argument. What do you think?


Compus

 

[BCR]

I'm sure I saw a still from that video a while ago that showed smoke rising from the roof of the Pentagon on the day.

I've always wondered whether the video could possibly be useful in relation the CIT argument. What do you think?

Compus

Maybe. However being almost a mile away and CCTV, I would not expect much. Of course, that is why I did not spend the money

 

[CompusMentus]

A mile away perhaps but it would be interesting to see if it shows the moments after the impact in the airspace above the building.

How much money is needed to request the video?

Compus

 

[BCR]

A mile away perhaps but it would be interesting to see if it shows the moments after the impact in the airspace above the building.

How much money is needed to request the video?

Compus

Not that much. I think they wanted 25 or 30 bucks in duplication fees for each video. Just file a FOIA with the FBI and they'll send you the video and a bill for the fees (if any). Mine was part of a larger FOIA and I wanted the one's from the scene.

 

[CompusMentus]

Not that much. I think they wanted 25 or 30 bucks in duplication fees for each video. Just file a FOIA with the FBI and they'll send you the video and a bill for the fees (if any). Mine was part of a larger FOIA and I wanted the one's from the scene.

I'm a UK citizen. Would I be entitled to such a service?

Compus

 

[BCR]

I'm a UK citizen. Would I be entitled to such a service?

Compus

Yes sir. The guy who started the original lawsuit was Scott Bingham, a UK citizen.

 

[beachnut]

Sonic boom! You know you don't hear anything in the plane doing the boom, but we had to report them when by accident. 911 would be an exemption. It was a boom, I will bet moron math master failed pilot Balsamo's 11.2g life on it.
Plus you have the evidence.

because a sonic boom is only heard at the moment the jet passes by the person

Who said this failed statement.