evidence against flight 93 shoot down

[TJM]

the left engine was recovered in a pond 500-600 yards ahead of the crash site. it was fully intact. obviously seperated from the plane while the plane was airborne.

my source is for the above information is wally miller.

Thanks to Mr. TC329, we have

Sure, we can call Wally, and at the same time can tell him how TC has been lying about what he said?

 

[Corsair 115]

Go talk to a physics professor, who can readily tell you what will hit the ground sooner when you have a mass A, that experiences a downward force of just gravity, a mass B that experiences a downward force of gravity plus jet engine thrust, and at time t0, both mass A and mass B are at the same height.

The AIM-9 Sidewinder, the standard heat-seeking air-to-air missile in the U.S. inventory, weighs approximately 190 lbs. Its solid rocket motor propels the missile up to a speed of Mach 2.5 and leaves a visible smoke trail (though this is reduced in more recent versions). The Sidewinder is armed with a 20.8 lb. blast fragmentation warhead which is detonated by a proximity fuze when the missile nears the target. The resulting detonation sends out a spray of shrapnel which then shreds whatever part of the target is closest (in the case of a small, compact fighter, the shrapnel is certain to cripple or destroy some important part of the aircraft, i.e. control surfaces, engine components, puncture fuel tanks, etc., and downs the fighter). The effective kill radius of the warhead is about thirty feet.

Have you seen the picture Beachnut posted a link to? This one:
http://flickr.com/photos/11923090@N03/2164282251

Just eyeballing this, from a bad angle, but half the wing, looking from front to back, is gone, in the affected area. That's the top and the bottom.

In that particular instance, the difficulty for the crew in controlling the aircraft was not the direct damage to the wing, but rather the complete loss of hydraulic fluid. This meant the crew could only change the altitude and direction of the aircraft by altering engine power. That they were able to successfully land the aircraft in that condition is a testament to their outstanding piloting skill.

There have been two other cases where a large jetliner lost all its hydraulics. These were Japan Airlines Flight 123 and United Airlines Flight 232. In both of these cases the aircraft crashed with a large loss of life.

 

[leftysergeant]

The Sidewinder is armed with a 20.8 lb. blast fragmentation warhead which is detonated by a proximity fuze when the missile nears the target. The resulting detonation sends out a spray of shrapnel which then shreds whatever part of the target is closest. The effective kill radius of the warhead is about thirty feet.

Now, the way I visualize the result of this, saince i have never seen film of a pressurized, multi-engine plane hit by one, is that we should have had a blow-out of the fuselage aft of the wings, thus shredded aluminum up-range of the impact site and paper, fabric, some luggage and more than a few body parts over a wide area up and down range.

I do not see an engine ripping lose from the wing in a large piece.

 

[Corsair 115]

Now, the way I visualize the result of this, saince i have never seen film of a pressurized, multi-engine plane hit by one, is that we should have had a blow-out of the fuselage aft of the wings, thus shredded aluminum up-range of the impact site and paper, fabric, some luggage and more than a few body parts over a wide area up and down range.

Similar caveat here, but I disagree nevertheless with your version. As the Sidewinder is a heat-seeking missile, and a civilian passenger jet cannot do anything near the kind of hard maneuvering a fighter can, I would expect the missile to detonate somewhere near one of the engines since those are the heat sources the missile would track. The likely result would be an engine and some of the wing peppered with shrapnel holes, which may or may not result in larger pieces breaking off.

In this case the DHL jet incident over Baghdad would seem a good indicator of what the results would probably look like.

 

[leftysergeant]

I was thinking that, although the missile would be tracking the engine, the fuselage would tend to set off the proximity fuse.

Can you provide a link with photos of the DHL plain you referrenced?

 

[Disbelief]

Dom, I am sure you have not forgotten about this:

Dom, it is your claim that not enough dirt was displaced, so it is up to you to prove it. To do so, you will need to calculate the amount of dirt that should have been displaced and compare it to the amount of dirt that actually was displaced. If not, retract your claim.

Are you going to back up your claim or retract it? You have said the crater was 20' long and 8' deep, but you have not said how wide it is. Do you have that dimension as well?

 

[Reheat]

WHERE ARE ALL OF THE PARTS?

Thanks to Mr. TC329, we have
(emphasis mine)

I certainly can't prove that this debris included engine pieces, but it would make sense in a scenario where an engine has been shot off - right?

No, you haven't. Parts would be scattered ALONG THE INBOUND TRACK, not downwind of the crash site. Plus, they would need to be ENGINE PARTS in the way of compressor blades, panels, and such, not insulation and paper. If there was wing damage, as you suggest, then there would need to be pieces of that wing. Those parts would not be confetti, but fairly good size easily identifiable pieces.

Uh, you're going to need something more than the deluded hearsay and misinterpreted crap from TC329 to change the inbound track from what is known. In addition, we're talking miles, not 1-2 miles, but considerably more than that. You now have to deal with all of the evidence indicating UA 93's flight path such as the RADES Data, not just the FDR. In addition, you have to show fighter(s) that could have fired the missile. BTW, TC's drone that flew under utility wires won't hack it.

To summarize, you have absolutely no evidence for a shoot down, only your wild speculations. ALL evidence points to no shoot down. There is absolutely nothing at all except deluded hearsay to indicate anything else, nothing.

 

[TC329]

Go read the FDR, you will see the plane was in one piece. FDR is proof of no shoot down. What do you have to add? Exactly, an attack on me.

yeah and if that ain't good enough for you ask dick cheney and he'll tell you it wasn't shot down too!!

 

[DC]

but dont ask Rummsfeld, he seems to be a bit confused about it

 

[Reheat]

yeah and if that ain't good enough for you ask dick cheney and he'll tell you it wasn't shot down too!!

Well, he's posting here now, why don't YOU ask him! Also, while you're at it, ask him why he's using a AVATAR of Ghandi.

 

[TC329]

Thanks to Mr. TC329, we have
(emphasis mine)

I certainly can't prove that this debris included engine pieces, but it would make sense in a scenario where an engine has been shot off - right?

Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said.

Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

Pittsburgh Tribune Review

 

[TC329]

BTW, TC's drone that flew under utility wires won't hack it.

please explain why the little white plane witnessed by :

susan mcelwain
rick chaney
lee purbaugh
viola saylor
jim brandt
john fleegle
tom spinelli
robin doppstadt
susan custer

and others is incapable of successfully intercepting an airplane.

 

[Reheat]

please explain why the little white plane witnessed by :

susan mcelwain
rick chaney
lee purbaugh
viola saylor
jim brandt
john fleegle
tom spinelli
robin doppstadt
susan custer

and others is incapable of successfully intercepting an airplane.

Your delusion. You show that it can and I'll then prove you wrong and embarrass you again.

I'm sure that in doing this you'll include speed capability, fuel capability, weapon carriage capability, employment capability and any other details that you'd like to include, uh, uh, uh in order to convince anyone other than a child or a truther !

Get crackin'...

 

[DC]

Well, he's posting here now, why don't YOU ask him! Also, while you're at it, ask him why he's using a AVATAR of Ghandi.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1840748075c97c9b2a.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1840748075c97c9b2a.jpg[/qimg]

because he is my Idol

 

[TC329]

Your delusion. You show that it can and I'll then prove you wrong and embarrass you again.

I'm sure that in doing this you'll include speed capability, fuel capability, weapon carriage capability, employment capability and any other details that you'd like to include, uh, uh, uh in order to convince anyone other than a child or a truther !

Get crackin'...

you claimed that it couldn't do that.

therefor the burden of proof falls into your lap to prove why the small white plane witnessed by :

susan mcelwain
rick chaney
lee purbaugh
viola saylor
jim brandt
john fleegle
tom spinelli
robin doppstadt
susan custer

is incapable of forcing down the 757. we'll all be waiting.

 

[TC329]

Sure, we can call Wally, and at the same time can tell him how TC has been lying about what he said?

i posted the challenge and wally's number how many posts ago?

still no one.

 

[Reheat]

.......we'll all be waiting.

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I have and will make no attempt to prove anything as you have established nothing at all, except that you can distort statements and come up with asinine theories that have no basis in reality.

BTW, you and your delusions are not as important as you seem to think they are. I'll just drop in occasionally to ridicule and have a laugh at what amounts to a bigger joke than CIT and pffft. It's better than any TV program for a giant belly laugh!

 

[1337m4n]

Truthers demand 95% of plane parts, so I am going to use the same standards and demand 95% of missile parts. Truthers where are the missile parts?

 

[1337m4n]

if I trust the FDR, most of this thread is moot.

It is not moot. The thread is about evidence against Flight 93 shoot down. The FDR is evidence against flight 93 shoot down. Why do you ignore evidence against flight 93 shoot down?

IF the FDR were faked (which would require an impossibly vast conspiracy all on its own) then why the double standard? Why do you reject the FDR but at the same time trust the cleanup workers who say they found an engine PART; maybe that was faked too, in order to make gullible idiots believe there was a shoot down.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Are we back on the little white hush-a-plane?