ESP/Remote Viewing vs. Just Guessing

[delphi_ote]

What do you base all these accusations on?

I don't know about the rest of it, but the last sentence is definitely right. Whether it's self deception or the deliberate deception of others, somewhere along the line there's a disconnect between the parapsychologists' theories/experiments and reality.

 

[CFLarsen]

What do you base all these accusations on?

I based them on the verifiable facts.

Take a look at the Global Consciousness people.

Take a look at the PEAR people.

Take a look at Gary Schwartz.

On and on it goes. None of them repeats an experiment and get the same positive result. None of them has ever had an experiment replicated by independent researchers. Their research is not only sloppy, they ignore criticism and refuse to change anything that will improve the quality of their experiments.

None of these people are slobbering idiots, mind you. They are highly educated, highly intelligent people. They know what they are doing. They are just not interested in doing it right.

 

[blutoski]

None of these people are slobbering idiots, mind you. They are highly educated, highly intelligent people. They know what they are doing. They are just not interested in doing it right.

I think that was the epiphany of Dr. Susan Blackmore: "Holy crap, after all this time, I finally realized they're not investigating, they're confirmation-seeking." She abandoned the field as beyond rescue, because there is no interest among the major players to conduct an actual investigation. They need to ensure positive results. Motives vary.

This is over and above evidence for fraud, of course, which taints the efforts of those who are merely self-deceived.

 

[Ashles]

I think the most interesting question would be - if I had an ability that was so miniscule I could only detect it by use of large scale studies and statistical analysis... what would lead me to assume I had this ability in the first place?

 

[CFLarsen]

I think that was the epiphany of Dr. Susan Blackmore: "Holy crap, after all this time, I finally realized they're not investigating, they're confirmation-seeking." She abandoned the field as beyond rescue, because there is no interest among the major players to conduct an actual investigation. They need to ensure positive results. Motives vary.

This is over and above evidence for fraud, of course, which taints the efforts of those who are merely self-deceived.

Indeed.

I find it increasingly difficult to come up with excuses for the professionals in this area. The higher it goes, the crookeder it becomes.

 

[blutoski]

I think the most interesting question would be - if I had an ability that was so miniscule I could only detect it by use of large scale studies and statistical analysis... what would lead me to assume I had this ability in the first place?

In their defense, most of the experiments are designed to detect an overall effect, rather than identify a 'star'. Their hypothesis is that there is 'something' that can't be explained by random chance, not so much that there are individuals with outstanding talent. Although they do sometimes claim to find the latter in their studies. These people have been either exposed as hoaxers, or have been unable to repeat their results, which just goes back to a chance explanation.

 

[Ashles]

In their defense, most of the experiments are designed to detect an overall effect, rather than identify a 'star'. Their hypothesis is that there is 'something' that can't be explained by random chance, not so much that there are individuals with outstanding talent.

Exactly. So why would this hypothesis be formed in the first place?

I could form the hypothesis that I could mentally make leaves move a tiny amount on trees 5km away. But why would I spend ages testing such a hypothesis without any clear evidence to start with?

It seems to be simply the desirability of such abilities that is the impetus for the creation and continuous testing, rather than any actual evidence towards their existence in the first place.