ESP and Reincarnation

[Akhenaten]

Ka?

 

[LightningStrike]

If consciousness is what is reincarnated, but personality and memories may be different?

If personality and memories are not retained in reincarnation, what is?

Consciousness is the blank slate and yet contains the self knowledge accrued through countless recurrences. The process of living and dying produces self knowledge which is the knowledge of man and woman's real origins. It can't be known or reflected on yet directs my whole life. All the circumstances that I require to become more intelligent happen. Intelligence is measured as the ability to lead an untroubled life.

What reincarnates is emotion. I know that I am not emotion but emotion does arise and gets perpetuated by my ignorance of it. I give it life or experience which is what it is looking for. Yes, it is an entity and when I die all the emotion I have made lives on in the psyche looking to reincarnate through anybody, anytime.

 

[LissaLysikan]

I would think that would leave an imprint on whatever is reincarnated, which, were it of some value, would be noticeable to yourself or others. If it has no effect, how can it be claimed to exist/happen?

 

[Tapio]

Hi ya'll! Since reincarnation is something I held as a deeply meaingful belief for about 15 years (not anymore), I think the subject is fascinating.

Bob, I would like to ask you a question. You've answered quite clearly why you believe in the possibility of reincarnation at the moment. However, your post...

No observations support reincarnation; however, I will not abandon my deeply held beliefs which I have gone to great lengths to articulate.

...makes you sound rigid and fanatic in your belief (which you admit to not being supported in any reasonable way). Is this something you are consciously aiming at? To create yourself a system of beliefs which can not, and will not be altered, no matter what?

Now, I'm definitely not trying to sound hostile, sorry if I do. I'm genuinely interested in what makes you hold on so hard to something you acknowledge not necessarily deserving to be held on to. I understand it demands great courage to accept you've been, quite frankly, wasting your mental capacity for the last years in creating a fairytale. But this forum is full of people (myself included) who have actually done exactly that, accepted the fact as it is. And hey, here we still are!

I can't speak for others, but at least for me realising the true nature of my belief in reincarnation was, after the initial embarrassment, frustration, even despair, something giving me a whole new perspective on how my mind functions. And after studying a lot more on the subject I now think in the end we're not all that different in these aspects. It's natural to form this kind of belief, it's okay to hold on to it as if your life was depending on it, but what makes us rise to a new level of being human, is when we honestly confront ourselves, find out why the things we base our belief on aren't really worth it, acknowledge our deficiencies and still, in the face of it all, take the leap of (letting go of) faith.

Bob, to me you sound like you're actually on the fence regarding this belief. I want to use this small space here to encourage you to jump.

 

[BobG]

Consciousness is the blank slate

Exactly. And it is the blank slate that gets reincarnated.

Thank you. I now have another way of expressing my thoughts.

Bob

 

[BobG]

Bob, I would like to ask you a question. You've answered quite clearly why you believe in the possibility of reincarnation at the moment. However, your post...



...makes you sound rigid and fanatic in your belief (which you admit to not being supported in any reasonable way).

On the contrary, I am very flexible and not at all rigid. In fact, I am quite liberal in my views and outlook on life.

This happens to be what I believe now but I certainly will change my views in the future, if necessary.

I believe that I expressed myself as being rather rigid because it seemed to be such an uphill battle. I was alone against everyone with absolutely no support from others.

At this point, I am happy to see that there are others who believe in reincarnation stepping up to the plate but, obviously, none of them share my exact beliefs.

By the way, how did you highlight the text in my message?

Bob

 

[Tapio]

@ LightningStrike (btw, cool avatar)

What you're saying sounds sooo familiar from countless sessions of different 'spiritual masters' I've encountered. Sounds like you're talking of ideas derived from two basic Hindu concepts of:

sa(m/n)skara^WP

Sanskaras are impressions derived from past experiences that form desires that influence future responses and behavior (karma).

and

vasana

vasana: (Sanskrit) "Subconscious inclination." From vas, "living, remaining." The subliminal inclinations and habit patterns which, as driving forces, color and motivate one's attitudes and future actions. Vasanas are the conglomerate results of subconscious impressions (samskaras) created through experience. Samskaras, experiential impressions, combine in the subconscious to form vasanas, which thereafter contribute to mental fluctuations, called vritti. The most complex and emotionally charged vasanas are found in the dimension of mind called the subsubconscious, or vasana chitta.

These concepts are, of course, thoroughly religious with not a shred of evidence-base, and as such quite impossible to discuss in a rational manner. However, if you're talking about something different, please elaborate. I'd be intrigued to hear the how's and why's behind your belief.

 

[Tapio]

On the contrary, I am very flexible and not at all rigid. In fact, I am quite liberal in my views and outlook on life.

Great! But I'm confused as to how this is compatible with you're claiming you are not about to alter your belief regarding reincarnation...

This happens to be what I believe now but I certainly will change my views in the future, if necessary.

Okay...so, let's play a little mindgame. What would you consider robust enough evidence to base disregarding the belief in reincarnation on?

I believe that I expressed myself as being rather rigid because it seemed to be such an uphill battle. I was alone against everyone with absolutely no support from others.

At this point, I am happy to see that there are others who believe in reincarnation stepping up to the plate but, obviously, none of them share my exact beliefs.

I can't even begin to imagine how hostile this forum must sometimes feel to somebody honestly believing in stuff most of the other members would rather eradicate from the face of the earth (exaggeration intended ). My sympathies are with you. But! In the same sentence I must comment, that I know of no other place on the internet where to find such intellectual and worthy of thought views of such a variety of topics. So I hope the possible hostility you experience is in some ways compensated by the definite inspiration and learning, and you stick around!

By the way, how did you highlight the text in my message?

In the toolbar of the 'advanced' reply to thread-box you find a small highlited 'hilite' text. Just choose the part of text you wish to highlite and click on it!

 

[LissaLysikan]

Exactly. And it is the blank slate that gets reincarnated.

Thank you. I now have another way of expressing my thoughts.

Bob

Um - what is the difference between the blank slate of a first incarnation and the blank slate of a reincarnation?

 

[BobG]

That was a mistake to say! It isn't me.

Regarding your other questions, I feel as if I am going around and around in circles explaining myself so please read all my previous posts in this thread.

Bob

 

[BobG]

Um - what is the difference between the blank slate of a first incarnation and the blank slate of a reincarnation?

I have no idea what this means?

 

[Pup]

Originally Posted by LissaLysikan
Um - what is the difference between the blank slate of a first incarnation and the blank slate of a reincarnation?

I have no idea what this means?

That's the point at which I got stuck and gave up trying to understand too. I mean, if you can't understand the meaning of the question, and I/we can't begin to understand the concept without an answer to the question, I don't know how to proceed.

 

[Mashuna]

Um - what is the difference between the blank slate of a first incarnation and the blank slate of a reincarnation?

I have no idea what this means?

Well, as I read it, it's the following:

You've said that you don't think everyone is reincarnated. So if a new baby isn't a reincarnation of someone else he/she is a blank slate.

Now, you don't think that reincarnation means having any memory of a past life, or being the same person, or even the same species. The only thing that is reincarnated is something you call 'consciousness'. You've also said that the reincarnated consciousness is this blank slate - nothing carried forward from the previous life in terms of knowledge, experience or memory.

So the question LissaLysikan asks is, what is the difference between an original blank slate and a reincarnated blank slate? What possible method is there for telling them apart?

 

[LightningStrike]

These concepts are, of course, thoroughly religious with not a shred of evidence-base, and as such quite impossible to discuss in a rational manner. However, if you're talking about something different, please elaborate. I'd be intrigued to hear the how's and why's behind your belief.

I had a master who didn't use eastern language. He was western a God realised man of no belief or tradition. He could describe the truth of life which is concerned with Love, Life, Death, Truth and God.

We are all concerned with that. I can't go beyond my own experience and describe reality beyond what I have realised so I can't discuss it but if you wish to read yet another spiritual master then look for Barry Long. If you are looking for the truth without belief you will have it reflected by him. In self knowledge you already know the truth you just need a clear reflection.

 

[Mashuna]

I had a master who didn't use eastern language. He was western a God realised man of no belief or tradition. He could describe the truth of life which is concerned with Love, Life, Death, Truth and God.

We are all concerned with that. I can't go beyond my own experience and describe reality beyond what I have realised so I can't discuss it but if you wish to read yet another spiritual master then look for Barry Long. If you are looking for the truth without belief you will have it reflected by him. In self knowledge you already know the truth you just need a clear reflection.

Wiki have the following quote from Barry Long, which they describe as 'quintessential'.

It (the Big Bang theory) would be really effective, and an astonishing scientific advance, if the theorising observer realised that as intelligence he is reducing all that he is seeing and imagining, including himself, to within a split second of the non-existent now-point in his own brain, the point of reality and the emergent point of the whole universe as far as man and sense can perceive it. Then the theory would be absolutely correct.
The scientist would not be concerned with a fabricated beginning billions of years ago but with himself, intelligence, being only a split second away from the pre-existent state, his own and everything's source - the motionless pure intellect or consciousness. Universe and man as intelligence would then unite in one sublime realised truth and the way would be open for scientific entry into the new epoch of time and knowledge beyond light-speed, sense and past.[25]

The hardest part of becoming a spiritual master is learning to keep a straight face.

 

[Tapio]

That was a mistake to say! It isn't me.

Regarding your other questions, I feel as if I am going around and around in circles explaining myself so please read all my previous posts in this thread.

Bob

Um...who is this directed to?

 

[Tapio]

I have no idea what this means?

It's a very clear question. But before answering it you first have to decide which reincarnation-school-of-thought you endorse. You earlier stated you believe a human can reincarnate as a dog. How about plants and minerals? Also, do you believe this reincarnation has an aim of some sort, and if it does, who decides it?

 

[BobG]

It's a very clear question. But before answering it you first have to decide which reincarnation-school-of-thought you endorse. You earlier stated you believe a human can reincarnate as a dog. How about plants and minerals? Also, do you believe this reincarnation has an aim of some sort, and if it does, who decides it?

Plants and minerals don't have a consciousness so they cannot be part of reincarnation.

No aim of any sort. Totally random.

 

[IXP]

Um - what is the difference between the blank slate of a first incarnation and the blank slate of a reincarnation?

All blank slates actually are not blank, they have a serial number. A new blank slate has a serial number that has not been used before, wheareas a reincarnated one reuses a serial number of a previous one.

IXP

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

All blank slates actually are not blank, they have a serial number. A new blank slate has a serial number that has not been used before, wheareas a reincarnated one reuses a serial number of a previous one.

IXP

Not true if they have been low level formatted.