Eric Ciaramella - whistleblower

The whistle blower could be a convicted serial killer, it doesn't matter. What he's reported is collaborated by many other known witnesses. In fact, the whistle blower could go into hiding, or try to retract his report and it wouldn't matter at this point.
 
The whistle blower could be a convicted serial killer, it doesn't matter. What he's reported is collaborated by many other known witnesses. In fact, the whistle blower could go into hiding, or try to retract his report and it wouldn't matter at this point.

Ah, but you forget that he represents a case of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree"!

You know, the principle that if you find 20 murdered bodies in someone's cellar and video of a guy doing the killing after an illegal search, it means that the guy is innocent.
 
Here are a handful of the questions posed by the NY Post:

What, if anything, did he leak?

Did he work with Biden on Ukraine, apparently Ciaramella’s area of expertise?

Did he know about Burisma and Hunter Biden?

Who told him about the call, and why did that person not complain instead of him?

How did Schiff’s staff help him tailor the complaint?

It is unclear to me how the answers to any of those questions might help us discover whether the allegations and details found in the whistleblower's report are truthful and accurate. This editorial strikes me as a fairly ham-fisted effort to distract from the various abuses of power committed by the White House in pursuit of a domestic political errand.
 
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If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.
 
Pfffftt.

Why? What ******* difference does it make? Please, do tell. The evidence without any whistleblower speaks for itself.

If they show that the whistleblower only blew the whistle because he didn't like Trump, that means all of the evidence uncovered during the investigation doesn't count..........
 
I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power.And he mindless supporters will cheer him on.

Thank you for telling us this. Now we know not to take anything you say about Trump seriously.
 
I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power.And he mindless supporters will cheer him on.

While he might not try to stay in power personally, he might try putting Dump Jr up for the Republican nomination, in an effort to retain power in every way but name.
 
While he might not try to stay in power personally, he might try putting Dump Jr up for the Republican nomination, in an effort to retain power in every way but name.

Yea right. Next, you'll say that he has a loyal lackey AG that controls the DOJ and that the Senate Republicans are rigging the Senate impeachment trial....
 
Ah, but you forget that he represents a case of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree"!

You know, the principle that if you find 20 murdered bodies in someone's cellar and video of a guy doing the killing after an illegal search, it means that the guy is innocent.

The "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" principle is one of the most publicly misunderstood doctrines in Law, right alongside "hearsay" and the BS claim that "a failed attempt to commit a crime means no crime was committed" that Trumpistas keep trotting out.

Firstly, this evidential exclusion doesn't even apply in the case of impeachment, it only applies in Law and only when the accused has had his 4A rights violated. This happens when an Officer of the Law or an agent of the government (that bit is very important) has illegally searched an area which is covered by the accused's 4A rights, i.e. in an areas in which he/she has the right to privacy - usually the person's home or property or vehicle, or under very limited circumstances, his/her place of work. The search must be illegal through either no warrant or an illegally obtained search warrant.

Examples of exceptions to the exclusion rule;

1. Discovery of evidence as a result of an independent source
Your neighbour knows you have committed a crime. One day, your neighbour is visiting you. He takes a piece of incriminating evidence and passes it to Police. Your 4A rights have not been violated because there was no illegal search by the Police (although your lawyer could argue "chain of custody issues")

2. Inevitable discovery
You keep incriminating evidence in your top drawer at your place of employment, you have no 4A rights. If the business owner grants the Police permission to search your desk, any evidence so obtained will be admissible. Even if the owner wasn't there to give permission, the Police would have discovered the evidence anyway with a warrant issued to the owner

3. The Good Faith exception
Police obtain a search warrant based on information they believe to be true. They find incriminating evidence. Later it turns out the the information was wrong and the search warrant was not valid on probable cause, however, it was obtained and executed by government agents in good faith. The evidence is admissible.


Even if the exclusion rule did apply to impeachment, two exceptions would apply

1. The Independent Source Exception - the whistleblower is not an agent of the government

2. The Good Faith Exception - the whistleblower believed he was right to do what he did (and he was, because his actions were protected by US Federal Statute).
 
Thank you for telling us this. Now we know not to take anything you say about Trump seriously.


And we also shouldn't take what Trump says seriously. He himself has publicly said, and agreed with supporters who said, that his term should be extended as compensation for the investigation. That's why people bring it up.
 
If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.

Worded like that, it makes the Repugnican argument sound even more silly.
 
If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.

Since the whistleblower has no bearing on the investigation, I don't understand the opposition to having him testify. If the defense wants to waste their time going down a path that doesn't help them, then let them.
 
Since the whistleblower has no bearing on the investigation, I don't understand the opposition to having him testify.

Do you understand why whistleblower statutes exist in the first place?

I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power. And [his] mindless supporters will cheer him on.
Where could one possibly come up with such a ridiculous idea? Surely actual GOP politicians would never suggest such a blatantly unconstitutional idea.

https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/1205211276005101568
 
Do you understand why whistleblower statutes exist in the first place?

He's already been outed. I'm not sure why you think keeping him from testifying is going to provide him with any additional protection.
 
He's already been outed. I'm not sure why you think keeping him from testifying is going to provide him with any additional protection.
I suppose a few online articles are a lot like having one's face on the evening news, testifying under oath, now you mention it.
 
I suppose a few online articles are a lot like having one's face on the evening news, testifying under oath, now you mention it.

I can see why you think being on broadcast news is relevant, but how the hell is being under oath? Do you think he's going to be forced to lie? Do you think he's going to be tricked into lying? Do you think he's going to want to lie? Oh, and BTW, he can testify in closed hearings, so he's at no more risk of having his face in the news in that situation than he already is.
 

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