English Has a New Preposition, Because Internet.

[Craig B]

I am reminded of Churchill's statement when he read a memo in which somebody tried to prove how intellectual they were by playing games with English Grammar:

"I will not up with this nonsense Put".

That definitely isn't grammatical! The quote is given in winstonchurchill.org as

This is the kind of tedious [sometimes "pedantic"] nonsense up with which I will not put!

It is dismissed as an "alleged marginal note" and as "apocryphal".

 

[Morrigan]

The incorrectness is deliberate: self-interruption to emphasize the interrupting part over the interrupted one.

"**** you" is not a noun

Ouch. Last time I try humour on the JREF...

^ Probably a lie

 

[Dr. Keith]

I frequent a car site where this construction is used to humorous effect. Two undercurrents on the site are that any extravagance or outrageousness is OK if it is related to race cars and the answer to every automotive question is always Miata (or MX-5 for non-USAians).

Thus the comments: Because racecar. and Because Miata.

 

[dudalb]

That definitely isn't grammatical! The quote is given in winstonchurchill.org as It is dismissed as an "alleged marginal note" and as "apocryphal".

My bad. I should have looked it up first.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I've decided to do my own bit of word function altering. Yesterday I saw an advert for some kind of foot sander thing (don't ask, I didn't), the tagline for which was "the quick and easy way to beautiful feet". I have since decided that, in honour of the way that sentence could be read, I will henceforth not only use the word "beautiful" as an adjective, but also as a verb.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I don't think that was a reason, I think it was the character's name.

"Who am I? My name is **** you"

................


But how well will you handle it when the spelling of the word is changed to match the nook-u-lar pronunciation?

That will be acceptable, though of course the pronunciation *nyookular* is not.

Kidding aside, I've never heard anyone use this "because--" construction in real life and am inclined to think it would sound silly. But on the web I find it a punchy shortening.

 

[elgarak]

.
I love that!
The precision of use in say, German, demands all those long throat-clearing words to describe anything.
We can use "pot" in any number of ways, all of which are interpretable by the context.
I can imagine the 14 different terms German would need to do the same thing.
"smoke this pot."
"the pot is boiling"
"the economy has gone to pot"
"I took a pot shot"
...

I take it you never actually used German, or experienced 'normal' German?
It's not so different from English regarding it's malleability, and such malleability is used in everyday language, and media.

 

[MaxMurx]

English: German
Smoke this pot: Rauch' dieses Gras (smoke this grass). "Gras" (grass) is the German word for Marijuana. The German word for "Hashish" is: "****" . (Without points of course but leaving them away leads to a word shown as "*****" here).
The pot is boiling : German pots don't boil (only the content boils in German quality stainless steel pots, attention: joke!)
similar is: Die Kacke dampft (the **** is steaming)
Economy has gone to pot: die Wirtschaft ist im Arsch (..in the ass)
Pot shot : Blattschuss (leaf shot)


In comparison to the English language, German is more complicated, French is more beautiful. Therefore you can't teach any idiot to learn German or French (attention:joke).
The tendency of the English language seems to me to go into the direction of more and more simplification (my native language is German). When I first read "YIELD PEDESTRIANS" written on a street in Miami, I asked myself for which reason I would have to yell at pedestrians. In L.A (!) I needed much longer to guess the meaning of "Peds Xing" written on the streets (Pedestrians X-ing = Pedestrians crossing) and the peds were lucky not to have X-ed while I was X-ing the writings with my SUV (!) with 100 mph because I thought it was and ad (!) for a Chinese Restaurant. The next day I read the headline of the L.A. Times: "Bush OK's War". That was so in the pot that I needed a "Coke 2 Go" from a "Toys 'R Us Deli". (Of course "Toys 'R Us" neither has "Coke" nor "Deli". It is to have a chance to say that I am guessing since 30 years what "Deli" means, written on all US American food stores. "Delivery" or "delicatessen" or something else?). "Coke" in German btw (!) is for PEPSI COLA,COCA COLA; AFRI COLA and all other kinds of "Cola" (and also for "Cocaine" which also is called "Koks" = Coke) Asking for a "Coke" in a US Deli can lead to the answer: "Sorry, we only have PEPSI". Ok", I say, "but ASAP".

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 10. Even though the word has legitimate use in German, it is still not permitted in the public area.

 

[I Ratant]

I take it you never actually used German, or experienced 'normal' German?
It's not so different from English regarding it's malleability, and such malleability is used in everyday language, and media.

.
I spent 3 years in Germany, trying to make their syntax fit mine.
I know those like are winning, when "hamburger" exists in French! :

 

[I Ratant]

English: German
Smoke this pot: Rauch' dieses Gras (smoke this grass)
The pot is boiling : German pots don't boil (only the content boils in German quality stainless steel pots, attention: joke!)
similar is: Die Kacke dampft (the **** is steaming)
Economy has gone to pot: die Wirtschaft ist im Arsch (..in the ass)
Pot shot : Blattschuss (leaf shot)

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 10.

...

.
Drat!
I was hoping for a bunch of polysyllabic words that include the mechanism of the thing being described.

 

[MaxMurx]

Die Reichhaltigkeit der deutschen Sprache ergibt sich auch aus der systemimmanenten Spracheigenheit, dass man in schöpferischer Eigenkreativtätigkeit lustige Wortneubildungen durch substantivierendes Hintereinanderhängen ganzer Satzbausteine erschaffen kann. Bei der obengenannten Wörterzahlbezifferung dürfte es sich deshalb um eine Wörterzahlmindestmengenschätzung handeln, die die Eigenkreativtätigkeitsfähigkeiten des deutschen Allgemeinleserbriefschreibertums unterschätzt. Leider will die neue Deutsche Recht Schreibung das ab schaffen. Da sind die oben genannten bestimmt selbst darauf gekommen. Die sind eben allein stehend.

Translation: The richness of the German language results from its system's intrinsic linguistic property to be able in own creative work to invent funny new words by substantivatingly attaching complete parts of a sentence to each other. The assessment of the number of words as quoted above seems to be an assessment of the lower margins of word counts which underestimates the creativity of the common German authors of letters-to-the-editor. Unfortunately "New German Grammar and Spelling" intends to end that situation. Those having developed that seem to have had those ideas themselves / seem to have had an orgasm on those ideas: ("daraufkommen" = having an idea, "darauf kommen" = having an orgasm on something, literally: to come on something). Those seem to be unmarried / seem to be able to stand without assistance. ("alleinstehend" = unmarried, "allein stehend" = to stand without help).

The text (author: myself) was an own "letter-to-the-editor" and satirically meant for criticizing those new "ideas" (which in the meantime were drawn back. Both, old and new grammar and spelling are presently regarded to be correct in German). The red part therefore is intentionally wrong. "Recht schreibung" (writing of the law or writing correctly or writing to the right) is an intentional misspelling of "Rechtschreibung" (spelling). "Ab schaffen" (to work off) is an intentional misspelling of "abschaffen" (to remove). It was intentionally misspelled to show that the inventors of "New German Grammar and spelling" disregard their own rules (Rechtschreibung / abschaffen) and unintentionally change the meaning of the text (darauf kommen and allein stehend). According to the new rules only "allein stehend" and "darauf kommen" would have been acceptable. In the second part of the sentence any native German speaker can notice how "New German Grammar and Spelling" destroys the rhythm, the fluidity of the sentences. Those new short and standardized words are better "digestible" for word processing software and speech recognizing computers. We are however not the slaves of machines, those are ours. Although I have intentionally made a sentence with many long words, the sentence is not an exceptional German sentence.



The longest German word known to myself:

"Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänskajütentürschlüsselloch"

(Key hole of the door of the cabin of the captain of the "Danube Steam Ship Company"). It is not used anymore because steam ship companies do not exist anymore on the River Danube, not because of the word being too long. It is impossible to be written here in one word only without the "blank" in it (try yourself).

When I listened to my children playing around with words I realized that language is a tool but also can be a toy.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

In comparison to the English language, German is more complicated, French is more beautiful.

In what way do you mean that German is more complicated? I've always thought that it was simpler. It seems more logical and there are fewer exceptions which need rules all of their own. It's been a long time since I was a native German speaker, though, so there may be nuances that I'm forgetting.

I suppose you could also make the case that English is more complicated because it's more widely-spoken, and therefore there are many more variations. There's a long thread on these boards about the differences between American and British English. I expect that if we were to widen that to include India, Hong Kong, etc. then there would be many, many times the differences - but still all "correct" English. And that's before you get into half-English languages like Tamglish. That's a cross between Tamil and English. The following video is in Tamglish and has subtitles:



The parts which are English and are perfectly understandable to an English speaker, but are unquestionably very different to British or American English ("Yo boys I am sing song", for example). The line after the singer is told "only English" is "Handula galss-u, glass-la scotch-u eyes-u full-aa tear-u", which is mostly recognisable and comprehensible English, but is not how a British or American person would phrase anything in normal conversation.

And then there are British terms used in unfamiliar ways - "soup song, flop song" relies on definitions of "soup" and "flop" which don't exist in British English.

 

[MaxMurx]

In what way do you mean that German is more complicated? I've always thought that it was simpler.

That was a joke coming from being jealous that English, not German, is spoken all over the world. The joke is always well appreciated when the French (again) complain about the rest of the world speaking English, not French. (As a German living in France I know what I am talking about).

Variations of English in former colonies or dominions cannot be taken into comparisons. This way Austrian German, Swiss German, Luxemburgish or Old Frisian, also called "Plattdeutsch" /flat German, must be taken into English/German comparisons (Old Frisian is a mixture of German, Dutch and English). English "the", German "der / die / das", in Frisian is "te". "Linguistic" is not my academic discipline however. I am a simple medical doctor. "Languages" is one of my hobbies. Once I was in the old court house of the "Hanse" in Lübeck / Germany. Court rulings were painted on the walls there. You are not able to read or understand them without understanding both English and German. If both do not work, the word is Dutch.

I also like funny origins of words like "Mayday" from French "M'aidez!" (Help me), the German "Fisimatente" (nonsense) from French "Visite ma tente" (visit my tent), invitation from French Napoleonic officers to German girls or the origin of the word "Jeans", American cotton fabric imported to the Italian port of "Genova". English: "Genoa" (French: Genes), then further upgraded in the French city of Nimes and sent to Great Britain for further processing. "Genes" became "Jeans" and "from Nimes" (French: de Nimes) became "Denim".

The German "Windauge" in old Germanic was: "Wind ow" (eye for the wind). Romans having glass plated "Windows" called them "fenestra" which is today's German "Fenster" for "wind ow" and French "fenetre".
From the Nordic "Goths" which Germans regarded to be higher beings derived the words "God" and "Gothic" and my grand mother usually said "Engelland" (Land of the Angels) instead of "England".

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

That was a joke coming from being jealous that English, not German, is spoken all over the world.

Ah, yeah. As it goes, my brother and I were bilingual as kids and we spoke what we called "Deutchlish", whereby we'd swap from German to English and back again in the middle of sentences, as we got frustrated with both English and German speakers for being so slow to express themselves, and not to have the nuance of language that we did. After all, many words, when translated, have a slightly different meaning, and we could pick and choose whichever word best suited exactly what we were trying to express.

So, from my perspective, why doesn't the world speak both English and German? Or, at least, that was my perspective back when I was fluent in German.

Variations of English in former colonies or dominions cannot be taken into comparisons. This way Austrian German, Swiss German, Luxemburgish or Old Frisian, also called "Plattdeutsch" /flat German, must be taken into English/German comparisons (Old Frisian is a mixture of German, Dutch and English).

It does sound reasonable to compare those. At the very least, you mentioned American English, whereas I speak British English. If American English counts, then why not the English spoken in India?

 

[I Ratant]

...
When I listened to my children playing around with words I realized that language is a tool but also can be a toy.

.
That's why I love English. So easy to mess around with the words.

 

[MaxMurx]

It does sound reasonable to compare those. At the very least, you mentioned American English, whereas I speak British English. If American English counts, then why not the English spoken in India?

You have convinced me. I agree.

Concerning the Internet I recently saw an article about "English I " (native English) and "English II" (international English) which increasingly seem to diverge from each other. The author went so far to say that those with the most difficulties in English II are native speakers of the English language.

Some issues are addressed in the presentation in the link below

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/a...th_r/critical_issues_for_21st_century_elt.pdf

 

[arthwollipot]

I've decided to do my own bit of word function altering. Yesterday I saw an advert for some kind of foot sander thing (don't ask, I didn't), the tagline for which was "the quick and easy way to beautiful feet". I have since decided that, in honour of the way that sentence could be read, I will henceforth not only use the word "beautiful" as an adjective, but also as a verb.

Verbing weirds language.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Funs my day, though.