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EMDR treatments.

thines said:
I doubt very much that this has been "proven". Scott Lilienfeld has said, to paraphrase that "what's new about EMDR doesn't work" and what works isn't new". Basically, EMDR is good old exposure therapy, which has been proven, with a bunch of eye twitching tossed in for variety. This latter has not been shown to be a useful addition.
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This. I have a friend who's researched it extensively, and has found that "evidence" for EMDR is very weak, and its use is often associated with psychological therapies that are actually harmful.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Cooling your face with a washcloth isn't EMDR.

Glad it helped your panic attack though.
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Yes. My story conflated the two and I should have written more clearly. The point was simply sharing a story with wasapi with whom I've had contact outside of the ISF. I see now I should have kept it to a PM.
 
I'm a the end of my rope with IBS. Now that I'm on the proper antibiotics, the major physical effects of my type of IBS are nearly gone, but the scars from years of it are making my life far more difficult than ever and I am losing out on career opportunities, nevermind never getting to do anything in personal life, and its actually worse than it has ever been even though most of my IBS pain is gone since the antibiotics.

It was mentioned above that EMDR may be an alternative to medication. Honestly, I'd rather have the medication, but as a male it is much, much much harder to get what the litterature calls for.

As hard as I have worked to get my weight down to sensible levels and ride my bike every day (than you JREF!!!) and though i may look like the absolute picture of health now, that is certainly not how it feels inside. I obviously have the willpower to do whatever it takes, but I just cannot lick this.

People around me keep pushing EMDR on me, but I don't think I have anything that would fit the clinical definition of PTSD.

Would EMDR be of any use to me?
 
I'm sorry, I'm not answering the question that you've asked, but, as I may have mentioned before...

I have beaten back IBS to a mild inconvenience with dietary changes.

Happy to talk you through the process if you think it could help.
 
After a fair amount of time, I decided it was not for me. By then, I had adapted by finding the things that help me find a calmness, a meditation, that won't block a full on panic attack. But daily, exercising, meditation, aquatic therapy helps me stay calm more consistently, as well as a change in medication that has helped.

What was interesting, yesterday I saw my doctor. She advised me to smoke or consume a lot of pot. She felt it dealt with two issues I am having. chronic pain and low appetite. I asked her, smiling, if she was suggesting I stay stoned all day, she said, "Yeah. Pretty much." California.
 
"As your physician, I advise you to remain stoned at all times."

Why does that sound vaguely familiar? Ah, yes:

"As your attorney, I advise you to take a hit out of the little brown bottle in my shaving kit."
 
pipelineaudio said:
I'm a the end of my rope with IBS. Now that I'm on the proper antibiotics, the major physical effects of my type of IBS are nearly gone, but the scars from years of it are making my life far more difficult than ever and I am losing out on career opportunities, nevermind never getting to do anything in personal life, and its actually worse than it has ever been even though most of my IBS pain is gone since the antibiotics.

It was mentioned above that EMDR may be an alternative to medication. Honestly, I'd rather have the medication, but as a male it is much, much much harder to get what the litterature calls for.

As hard as I have worked to get my weight down to sensible levels and ride my bike every day (than you JREF!!!) and though i may look like the absolute picture of health now, that is certainly not how it feels inside. I obviously have the willpower to do whatever it takes, but I just cannot lick this.

People around me keep pushing EMDR on me, but I don't think I have anything that would fit the clinical definition of PTSD.

Would EMDR be of any use to me?
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"Helping cure people from IBS for over 100 years", Mutaflor. It's a pro-biotic strain separated from the feces of a German soldier in 1917. "E-coli Nissle 1917". $90 bottle on Amazon. Or if that is too scarey, Vitafusion Probiotic, has Bacillus Stabilis, (from the stable?) m and Bacillus Coagulans. The cultures eat the rough "insoluble fiber" that seemed to give me intermittent problems.
 
novaphile said:
I'm sorry, I'm not answering the question that you've asked, but, as I may have mentioned before...

I have beaten back IBS to a mild inconvenience with dietary changes.

Happy to talk you through the process if you think it could help.
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Mine was the type caused by bacteria so 47 years of specific diet attempts had no effect (except for absolute trigger foods, which for me turned out to be anything really fatty or peanut butter)
 
wasapi said:
After a fair amount of time, I decided it was not for me. By then, I had adapted by finding the things that help me find a calmness, a meditation, that won't block a full on panic attack. But daily, exercising, meditation, aquatic therapy helps me stay calm more consistently, as well as a change in medication that has helped.

What was interesting, yesterday I saw my doctor. She advised me to smoke or consume a lot of pot. She felt it dealt with two issues I am having. chronic pain and low appetite. I asked her, smiling, if she was suggesting I stay stoned all day, she said, "Yeah. Pretty much." California.
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Hehe! here in Hawaii is much the same....Theyll give you a weed card with no argument, but the drugs that are actually shown to help? hell no

I gave the pot a try, makes it far, far worse for me.
 
Bumping an old-ish thread because a very good friend with PTSD has just had a session of EMDR and said she found it helpful.


thines said:
I doubt very much that this has been "proven". Scott Lilienfeld has said, to paraphrase that "what's new about EMDR doesn't work" and what works isn't new". Basically, EMDR is good old exposure therapy, which has been proven, with a bunch of eye twitching tossed in for variety. This latter has not been shown to be a useful addition.
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Elaedith said:
Although the way EMDR was developed sounds woo-ish, there is evidence that it is just as effective for PTSD symptoms as trauma-focused CBT and similar therapies that involve distraction with a dual task such as tapping. In the UK EMDR is recommended by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence for treating PTSD.

What is not clear is whether the eye movements actually play any role in reducing symptoms, whether they simply work as a form of distraction, or whether it is purely the talking component that is responsible for any effect. There are theories about the effects of eye movements on brain and memory processes and ongoing research using brain imaging but this is still a matter of debate.


I don't know of any established reason why it would require you to be in a more relaxed state to work compared to any other form of psychotherapy. There may be a particular theory that proposes this, but it is unlikely to have a well-established basis.
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Thanks for these posts. I needed to brush up on this, hence the bump to say thanks.

I'm kind of thinking I won't dissuade my friend of it at this stage because she's also getting CBT-type therapy from a good different psychologist and because she believes in a bit of woo and even if this is a bit of a placebo (white coat voodoo), the therapy and mild exposure side of the EMDR may have helped.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Bumping an old-ish thread because a very good friend with PTSD has just had a session of EMDR and said she found it helpful.






Thanks for these posts. I needed to brush up on this, hence the bump to say thanks.

I'm kind of thinking I won't dissuade my friend of it at this stage because she's also getting CBT-type therapy from a good different psychologist and because she believes in a bit of woo and even if this is a bit of a placebo (white coat voodoo), the therapy and mild exposure side of the EMDR may have helped.
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Here is a very recent review of evidence for EMDR as a treatment for PTSD.

This is a case where I was sure something was woo when I first read about it, but I've had to revise my opinion. Lilienfeld is usually very good on pseudoscience in clinical psychology, but I'm not sure if he was writing before more evidence became available.

That said, it is extremely difficult to compare different psychological therapies and control for placebo and non-specific effects, and research is prone to methodological issues and publication bias. This journal also published Shapiro's original work so may have some bias on this therapy. I haven't looked lately to see if there is any new evidence regarding the role of eye movements.

ETA: The review does acknowledge that although there are RCTs they are often of low quality.
 
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Thank you so much. Having done a lot of research, I will be trying it. My PTSD continues to get worse. After all this time . . .
 
Elaedith said:
Here is a very recent review of evidence for EMDR as a treatment for PTSD.

This is a case where I was sure something was woo when I first read about it, but I've had to revise my opinion. Lilienfeld is usually very good on pseudoscience in clinical psychology, but I'm not sure if he was writing before more evidence became available.

That said, it is extremely difficult to compare different psychological therapies and control for placebo and non-specific effects, and research is prone to methodological issues and publication bias. This journal also published Shapiro's original work so may have some bias on this therapy. I haven't looked lately to see if there is any new evidence regarding the role of eye movements.

ETA: The review does acknowledge that although there are RCTs they are often of low quality.
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Planigale said:
An extensive review of evidence for therapies for PTSD is here.
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng...he-treatment-of-ptsd-in-adults-pdf-6602621008
EMDR starts at page 163. The conclusion is that there is evidence of efficacy for all causes of PTSD except for combat veterans where the one study done showed a non-significant benefit
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Thank you very much for these links, and for your summaries.

Thanks wasapi for starting the thread, and I hope EMDR helps you.
 
arthwollipot said:
Steve Novella, host of the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast and practicing clinical neurologist, doubts the efficacy of EMDR.

EMDR and Acupuncture – Selling Non-specific Effects

(Science Based Medicine, 2011)
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To be accurate, he doubted whether the eye-movement/tapping part is the bit that makes it efficacious.

"In psychotherapy there are many sources of non-specific effects that would need to be carefully controlled for before the effects of any specific component can be determined. The interaction with the therapist, the time taken to focus on ones problems and symptoms, and the introduction of a novel element into the therapeutic relationship are all recognized factors. In addition, EMDR (not surprisingly) has evolved into a multifaceted treatment approach, that includes many standard elements of therapy. This always reminds me of the commercials who proudly advertise that their products are “part of this nutritious breakfast.” Yes, but are they an important part – or is the breakfast nutritious without it?"

"And in the end these magical elements do not add efficacy. For example, as the review above indicates, EMDR is no more effective than standard cognitive-behavioral therapy."

In other words, EMDR sessions are just as effective as CBT, which is still effective.

And I think in the case of my woo-lite friend, the "magical elements" may have a beneficial placebo effect on top of the CBT's beneficial aspects.
 
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