Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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d4m10n said:
The Five Civilized Tribes didn't make the list of Plains Indians, presumably because they originated from the east coast prior to forcible removals to Indian Territory. Plains Indians would be a nice reference population to have, though. Until then, we'll just have to make do with what we do actually have.



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This is very interesting, and is easy for anyone with as little as a 6th grade education to follow. If Warren had no NA genes at all, that marker would not be there.

I would say "/thread", except that it has a major drawback. Its science, and as well all know so well, the Trump Sycophants among us (we know who they are) simply don't do science. Its beyond their comprehension; they regard science to be part of a Liberal conspiracy.
 
acbytesla said:
You really don't know what your talking about as usual.

Elopement:

an act or instance of running off secretly, as to be married. Dictionary.com

elopement is often used to refer to a marriage conducted in sudden and secretive fashion, usually involving a hurried flight away from one's place of residence together with one's beloved with the intention of getting married. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elopement
tpedia

to leave home secretly to get married https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/elope

1. To run away with a lover, especially with the intention of getting married.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/elopement
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The language is bastardised once again. In Warren's parents' generation, 1930's, 'eloping' will almost certainly have referred to underage couples (=couples who need parental consent to marry) running away to a district where they were not underage and getting married there.

In the UK this is most famously associated with Gretna Green:

It has usually been assumed that Gretna's famous "runaway marriages" began in 1754 when Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act came into force in England. Under the Act, if a parent of a minor (i.e., a person under the age of 21) objected to the minor's marriage, the parent could legally veto the union. The Act tightened the requirements for marrying in England and Wales but did not apply in Scotland, where it was possible for boys to marry at 14 and girls at 12 with or without parental consent (see Marriage in Scotland). It was, however, only in the 1770s, with the construction of a toll road passing through the hitherto obscure village of Graitney, that Gretna Green became the first easily reachable village over the Scottish border.[2]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretna_Green


In addition, no consequence came of the pair marrying in secret. For example, her father wasn't cut out of the will of his parents, was he?

If, as we know, they were old enough to marry without parental permission, then the fact they failed to invite their parents indicates it was them doing the snubbing and not the other way round.
 
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Vixen said:
The language is bastardised once again. In Warren's parents' generation, 1930's, 'eloping' will almost certainly have referred to underage couples (=couples who need parental consent to marry) running away to a district where they were not underage and getting married there.

In the UK this is most famously associated with Gretna Green:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretna_Green


In addition, no consequence came of the pair marrying in secret. For example, her father wasn't cut out of the will of his parents, was he?

If, as we know, they were old enough to marry without parental permission, then the fact they failed to invite their parents indicates it was them doing the snubbing and not the other way round.
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Who cares about the unruly UK? They suck!
 
Vixen said:
The language is bastardised once again. In Warren's parents' generation, 1930's, 'eloping' will almost certainly have referred to underage couples (=couples who need parental consent to marry) running away to a district where they were not underage and getting married there.
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No, in fact we DON'T know that. My parents 'eloped' before my father was shipped over seas at the start of WWII. And my grandparents also eloped.
 
Vixen said:
The language is bastardised once again. In Warren's parents' generation, 1930's, 'eloping' will almost certainly have referred to underage couples (=couples who need parental consent to marry) running away to a district where they were not underage and getting married there.
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Warren, however, was telling the story in the early 21st century, using the term as it is used now.
 
Vixen said:
He married her mother when he was aged twenty-one. As he did not need parental consent to marry at twenty-one, it is not in any technical, abstract or legal sense 'an elopement'.
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Warren said her father was 20, not 21. Or do you have his birth date and the date of their marriage to contradict his own daughter?

Her father was not looking for legal parental consent. He was looking for their blessing. Not the same thing. If they needed his parents' legal consent, going to the next town would not have solved that problem. Logic is not your strong point.

An elopement merely means to run of to get married secretly. What they did is exactly the definition of elopement.

ETA: Wetumka and Holdenville (where they were married) are in the same county so the age of consent law was the same in both towns.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Warren said her father was 20, not 21. Or do you have his birth date and the date of their marriage to contradict his own daughter?

Her father was not looking for legal parental consent. He was looking for their blessing. Not the same thing. If they needed his parents' legal consent, going to the next town would not have solved that problem. Logic is not your strong point.

An elopement merely means to run of to get married secretly. What they did is exactly the definition of elopement.
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According to various articles he was twenty-one. If he was twenty and he still needed parental consent then there is a question mark over the legality of the wedding.

Why would Warren say he was twenty?
 
Vixen said:
The language is bastardised once again. In Warren's parents' generation, 1930's, 'eloping' will almost certainly have referred to underage couples (=couples who need parental consent to marry) running away to a district where they were not underage and getting married there.
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crescent said:
Warren, however, was telling the story in the early 21st century, using the term as it is used now.
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Whenever Vixen uses the term 'almost certainly' beware. It's usually anything but 'almost certainly'.

Besides, the town they lived in and the town they were married in were in the same county (Hughes). There was no legal reason to go to Holdenville to marry.
 
Meadmaker said:
Back when she was ticking the boxes, this sort of DNA testing was science fiction.


I have no idea why she ticked the boxes. My guess is that Tragic Monkey hit the nail on the head. There was this story about Indian ancestry, and she thought it was cool to be Native American. I'm guessing that's all there is to it.
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Vixen said:
According to various articles he was twenty-one. If he was twenty and he still needed parental consent then there is a question mark over the legality of the wedding.

Why would Warren say he was twenty?
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Do you read? They didn't need parental consent to get married. They did have to go to another town to get the marriage done, which is why it is elopement. Age of participants has nothing to do with what makes a marriage an elopement, only location does. If it's not at home and there's no wedding announcements, guest lists, the whole nine yards, it's an elopement. My mother remarried in something of an elopement in her forties, they didn't tell anyone ahead of time and went before a justice of the peace----not out of town so not as much eloping as Warren's parents did.
 
Vixen said:
According to various articles he was twenty-one. If he was twenty and he still needed parental consent then there is a question mark over the legality of the wedding.

Why would Warren say he was twenty?
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No, no, no. According to Twila Barnes and those who get their info from her (spouting the same nonsense as you), he was 21. His marriage license states he is 21, which is where she got that age. However, Donald Herring was born Nov. 05, 1911 and married on June 02, 1932, making him 20. Regardless, the age to marry was obviously not 21 as they were legally married in the same county as they lived. If he was below the age of consent, he could not have been married there, either.

Marriage Licence:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Eqp33F6aU...A/s640/Hughes+Co+OK+marriage+Herring-Reed.jpg
 
Stacyhs said:
No, no, no. According to Twila Barnes and those who get their info from her (spouting the same nonsense as you), he was 21. His marriage license states he is 21, which is where she got that age. However, Donald Herring was born Nov. 05, 1911 and married on June 02, 1932, making him 20. Regardless, the age to marry was obviously not 21 as they were legally married in the same county as they lived. If he was below the age of consent, he could not have been married there, either.

Marriage Licence:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Eqp33F6aU...A/s640/Hughes+Co+OK+marriage+Herring-Reed.jpg
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Legal age to marry without parent's consent in Oklahoma is 18.
 
Vixen said:
Are you claiming Warren is (a) a minority group and (b) is a victim of social disadvantage/discrimination?

A reality check is called for.
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According to the kind of folks doing the discriminating, she would have been, and her forebears of the native lineage:

Madison Grant of New York - The Passing of the Great Race (1916) said:
The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a Negro is a Negro; the cross between a white man and a Hindu is a Hindu; and the cross between any of the three European races and a Jew is a Jew.
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