Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Distracted1 said:
I read your link.
Paying particular attention to the part where: "the day after they were married, Warrens' parents came back to town and announced it to everyone" a fait acompli.

Is there some definition of "eloping" that you use that does not include running off to another town without telling anyone, getting married, and then coming home already wed?
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You can't get married in a church without being (a) in the congregation and (b) it issues banns about three weeks in advance.

Eloping is schlepping off to Gretna Green and marrying over an anvil.
 
Vixen said:
Yes, it can. It pinpointed me exactly.

See here:




Justify that.
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Wow! Your DNA pinpointed what Native American tribe you belong to?!

According to geneticists, tribal affiliation cannot be determined by DNA testing.

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said in a statement. "Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person's ancestors were indigenous to North or South America."

Indeed, Bustamante told the Boston Globe that he compared Warren's gene sequences to genetic segments from South American indigenous populations, because there is only a limited amount of data available from native North American populations. Because South and North American indigenous people share common ancestors — a population that probably crossed the Bering Strait at least 15,000 years ago — they also have more genetic sequences in common than they do with people of European ancestry. But that information is far too unspecific for the test to be able to assign a person's ancestor to a certain tribe.
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(https://www.livescience.com/63848-elizabeth-warren-native-american-ancestry-explained.html)

A highly credible forensic geneticist vs. Vixen. Hmmmmm...just who are we supposed to believe?
 
Vixen said:
You missed my point about the history of law. The medieval ages emphasis on family and bloodlines is what predicates our legal system today (nationality, citizenship, kinship, right to inherit).

If you go to court wanting to claim inheritance rights, or sue someone for topping one of your relatives...you have to name that relative or you'll be laughed out of court.

Kimo sabe?
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For the billionth time, "Kimo Sabe" does not mean "do you understand".
And you've failed over and over again to ever provide evidence that it does.
 
Stacyhs said:
Once again, provide evidence of this.

Oh, here...let me help you.


(Dailywire)

Hmmmm...if they had this big traditional wedding, why would they have to announce it to everyone when they came back to town?

This whole load of crap is based on one Twila Barnes' "research". As evidence that Warren's parents did elope? The fact they were married by a Methodist minister and not a Justice of the Peace. Whoa, Nelly! That's some evidence!

I suggest you stop reading anti-Warren biased websites that, per usual, are twisting whatever they can to fit that bias.
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You think nothing of justifying anything that comes your way. A murderer is not really a murderer and a cheating politician who has blatantly misrepresented herself as a Native American is an example of a great person.

LOL. Deep in your heart you know it is twaddle.
 
Vixen said:
You missed my point about the history of law. The medieval ages emphasis on family and bloodlines is what predicates our legal system today (nationality, citizenship, kinship, right to inherit).

If you go to court wanting to claim inheritance rights, or sue someone for topping one of your relatives...you have to name that relative or you'll be laughed out of court.

Kimo sabe?
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I've conversed with you before and the ability of your posts to quote my own, but then to pull something completely different and irrelevant to the discussion from thin air is already well known to me. Dizzying changes in topic one after another rather than an actual response/rebuttal to my own post. I enjoy discussions, not random and argumentative twists and turns.
 
Giordano said:
What is there to justify? Your citation is composed entirely of undocumented heaps of innuendo and highly slanted "tidbits" that even if true do not invalidate Warren's story. The marriage was performed by a prominent minister? "Prominent" ministers don't do elopements I guess? The marriage happened very soon after the groom turned 21, the legal age for marriage at that time so it could not have been after a long family opposition? Just the opposite: he could have married much earlier if he had parental permission; the fact they waited until 21 very much supports the idea that the married in the face of family opposition. Wtc.

It is not worth continuing this discussion given the distorted nature of the "information" being presented in support of your claims. But I will continue to await more substantiative posts from you in the future and will gladly engage in more productive, truth-based discussion if one arises.
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Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger.
 
Stacyhs said:
Wow! Your DNA pinpointed what Native American tribe you belong to?!

According to geneticists, tribal affiliation cannot be determined by DNA testing.


(https://www.livescience.com/63848-elizabeth-warren-native-american-ancestry-explained.html)

A highly credible forensic geneticist vs. Vixen. Hmmmmm...just who are we supposed to believe?
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No, silly. It specifically pinpointed a region for me. Incredible. (NB: not Native American.)

So it can distinguish one Native American tribe from another, as there will be homogeny within those tribes with markers identifying same-tribe members.
 
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The Big Dog said:
Yummy, the warren whitesplainers are now rolling out the:

NO YOU!

That is absolutely ******* gorgeous.
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The Big Dog said:
Golly folks, I really think that what we have here is a serial:

NO, YOU ARE THE BAD GUY

rather than, ya know, actually criticizing warren's racist and stupid stunt.

Oh well, I betcha a nickel we are going to get lots more b-b-b-b-bbbbbbiut Trump before we get the slightest criticism of Warren from "Down Under."
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The Big Dog said:
Damn, that is some next level strawmanning, yo!

It is cool, we'll mark that down as yet another B-b-b-but trump, while ignoring

Warren's stupid and racist stunt.

Hmm, as suggested by Kim Tall Bear up above, perhaps Warren's apologists and their whitesplaining are a wee bit racist?
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The Big Dog said:
Ain't nothing like a person proving SCIENCE with a personal anecdote, now is there?
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All of these posts all have something in common - they all show your pattern of behaviour in reverting to type.... insulting, demeaning, belittling and dismissing others.

The adults in the room know what this means...

Yougotnothin.jpg
 
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Vixen said:
You can't get married in a church without being (a) in the congregation and (b) it issues banns about three weeks in advance.

Eloping is schlepping off to Gretna Green and marrying over an anvil.
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Really? Who said they were married in a church? Funny. I got married in a church by a minister. I did not belong to the congregation nor were banns published.

This is the wedding announcement of Warren's parents. Try reading the first paragraph very carefully and tell me if it sounds like "They had a big traditional church wedding".



ETA: transcript of first paragraph:

"The marriage of Donald Herring and Miss Pauline Reed, two of Wetumka's most popular you people, came as a surprise to many of their friends when they returned from Holdenville late Saturday afternoon and announced their marriage."
 
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Vixen said:
You think nothing of justifying anything that comes your way. A murderer is not really a murderer and a cheating politician who has blatantly misrepresented herself as a Native American is an example of a great person.

LOL. Deep in your heart you know it is twaddle.
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Typical Vixen. You make a claim. When asked to provide evidence, you fail to do so. When evidence showing you are wrong is presented, you fall back on this kind of nonsense. So predictable.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Really? Who said they were married in a church? Funny. I got married in a church by a minister. I did not belong to the congregation nor were banns published.

This is the wedding announcement of Warren's parents. Try reading the first paragraph very carefully and tell me if it sounds like "They had a big traditional church wedding".

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695bc7cc331b76a.jpg[/qimg]

ETA: transcript of first paragraph:

"The marriage of Donald Herring and Miss Pauline Reed, two of Wetumka's most popular you people, came as a surprise to many of their friends when they returned from Holdenville late Saturday afternoon and announced their marriage."
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Yeah, it can be a real bugger when actual, real, documentary evidence rips the rug out from under your feet!
 
Stacyhs said:
Really? Who said they were married in a church? Funny. I got married in a church by a minister. I did not belong to the congregation nor were banns published.

This is the wedding announcement of Warren's parents. Try reading the first paragraph very carefully and tell me if it sounds like "They had a big traditional church wedding".

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695bc7cc331b76a.jpg[/qimg]

ETA: transcript of first paragraph:

"The marriage of Donald Herring and Miss Pauline Reed, two of Wetumka's most popular you people, came as a surprise to many of their friends when they returned from Holdenville late Saturday afternoon and announced their marriage."
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Er, his parents vehemently hated her for being a Native American. They get married secretly...and the racist parents welcome the newly-married kids back home with open arms and even put an announcement in the paper.

Riiiiight.
 
Giordano said:
Just to correct those on this thread making claims that Senator Warren was using something like 23 and me as the source of interpretation of her DNA testing: No. Her analysis was by Dr. Carlos D. Bustamante at Stanford, one of the originators and current leaders in this field. A member of the National Academy of Sciences USA as a result of his research. And his analysis appears to be both cautious and rigorous. This is not one of those types of vague ancestries you get in the mail from spitting in a tube. This is what you get from a scientist doing an intensive analysis.

The Republican need to get out talking points appears to have outstripped any limitations imposed by the actual facts.
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This is important because if you look at Trump's challenge (paraphrase)" If she would take the DNA test, you know, the 2 dollar test you see on TV and send it in, if it shows Indian ancestry I would give her a million dollars" she didn't do that. From what I know of the 23 and me test, her trace amount wouldn't have shown up, perhaps why she didn't accept the challenge but hired a guy to do a more rigorous test. My conclusion is that while she does have a Native American ancestor, she is not owed a million dollars.
 
smartcooky said:
All of these posts all have something in common - they all show your pattern of behaviour in reverting to type.... insulting, demeaning, belittling and dismissing others.

The adults in the room know what this means...

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ul4naerkcnxn7cm/Yougotnothin.jpg?raw=1[/qimg]
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Say, lets take a look shall we?

smartcooky said:
No, you're the "bad guy" (your words, not mine) when you do all of the above, and then forgive and ignore, and indeed JUSTIFY the "racist, stupid" (your words, not mine) things done by Dear Leader, to whom you have unconditionally devoted yourself.
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No TBD is the bad guy folks! TEH ADULTS KNOW!

And yet literally another post desperately trying to divert the thread to anything other than Warren and her racist supporters.
 
Vixen said:
No, silly. It specifically pinpointed a region for me. Incredible. (NB: not Native American.)

So it can distinguish one Native American tribe from another, as there will be homogeny within those tribes with markers identifying same-tribe members.
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Please present any forensic geneticist who says a person's TRIBE can be identified by a DNA test. Good luck.
I've provided two scientific sources that says it can't.
I can provide more, but why bother?
 
Vixen said:
Er, his parents vehemently hated her for being a Native American. They get married secretly...and the racist parents welcome the newly-married kids back home with open arms and even put an announcement in the paper.

Riiiiight.
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No one said his parents "vehemently hated" Warren's mother. They just didn't want them to get married. They got married and were of legal age to do so. What were the parents going to do? Disown them? And who says the parents put the add in the paper OR "welcomed them with open arms"? You are assuming a lot. Really, Vixen, that sound you hear is you scraping the bottom of the barrel for more excuses.
 
Marcus said:
This is important because if you look at Trump's challenge (paraphrase)" If she would take the DNA test, you know, the 2 dollar test you see on TV and send it in, if it shows Indian ancestry I would give her a million dollars" she didn't do that. From what I know of the 23 and me test, her trace amount wouldn't have shown up, perhaps why she didn't accept the challenge but hired a guy to do a more rigorous test. My conclusion is that while she does have a Native American ancestor, she is not owed a million dollars.
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You think that was the spirit of Trump's stupid remark? Do you think he knew that the $2 wouldn't show if she had NA ancestry? No $2 test exits for that matter. He owes her charity the money. I'd love for his smart ass, bullying mouth to cost him a million bucks. Maybe he'd learn a lesson. But I doubt it.
 
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