Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Meadmaker said:
I think what the line you called "woo" meant was that the DNA tests widely available cannot distinguish between natives of North America and natives of South America. I would guess that the population of South America was relatively recent and there are few if any genetic markers that developed after the population of South America. i.e. that natives of each region are essentially identical genetically.

On the other hand, there are genetic markers that can be associated specifically with America, as opposed to their Asian ancestors.
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Sure. I'd buy that. But like I said I don't see why it matters.
The borders between north/central/south America were arbitrarily set by non native whites. I think it's pretty obvious that the americas were populated by descendants of a common lineage.
So if someone shows they have "native american" dna, this is true whether from north or south america, no?
 
lionking said:
Off topic, but I was assured by an aboriginal “cultural awareness” lecturer that aborigines evolved in Australia because there were no arrival stories in the Dreamtime. When I pointed out the absence of apes or other species hominids could evolve from, he quickly changed the subject.

More on topic. My Irish ancestory is beyond doubt, but my father always contended a direct relationship to a famous Irish politician of the same surname. I know this is not true, but my siblings believe it.

It’s absolutely likely that Warren believed her mother’s story that she had a more direct NA ancestory. She has that ancestory, but probably not as direct as she thought.

The supposed outrage of the Cherokee Nation is irrelevant as Warren is, and never did, seek membership of that tribe. Membership of aboriginal communities has similar criteria. You do not need to demonstrate any percentage of aboriginality, you have to be recognised by the local aboriginal community. Easier said than done.

As I said earlier, as Warren has not sought membership of a NA tribe, much of the conservative bleating in this thread is utter nonsense.
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Love it when the “Irish” tell the actual native Americans that they are wrong.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KimTallBear/status/1052017467021651969/photo/1
 
The Big Dog said:
Folks, cultural political issues are woo, while 23 and Me scienticians are on point.

The sad thing is that our correspondent thinks that cultural identity tracing through a single test is “science”!
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What is "cultural identity tracing" ?

I have not defended this concept on any level.

Cultural issues often descend into "woo" territory. That's nothing new.
 
BobTheCoward said:
That is my point. No one actually says it is a good action. Its bad. She did something bad.
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You do realize there is a vast distance, with lots of stops, between "good" and "bad", don't you? Or do you see the world in absolutes of black and white rather in shades of gray?
 
The Big Dog said:
Are you kidding? Why would you believe that nonsense instead of the several articles from actual Native Americans I have posted?
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It isn't nonsense, its fact.

Try doing some actual research, and until you have, shut up!

The Big Dog said:
“Instead of looking to genetics, tribal genealogists can look at the extensive records the tribes have kept of their members to check if someone claiming native ancestry does indeed have legitimacy. Warren participated in the extremely common tradition among Americans of claiming a Cherokee ancestor. While many Native Americans believe the vast majority of those claims are false, if her ancestor had appeared on their records, she would have been accepted into the tribe, Nagle said.”
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All right and wonderful IF YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE CHEROKEE ANCESTOR. What if you haven't? If all you have to go by is family stories, then that's all you got.

I grew up in the belief that on my father's side, we have "McDonalds of the Highlands" (Clan Donald) ancestry - it was a definite famiyl tradition that we didn't get on with Campbells (the Glencoe thing and all that). As children, we were taught that.

Well, we've been seven generations and guess what? Not a single Scotsman. When I had my DNA tested, no DNA traceable to the north of the British Isles at all. Everything is Anglo-French and Swiss (my mother was Swiss)
 
lionking said:
Off topic, but I was assured by an aboriginal “cultural awareness” lecturer that aborigines evolved in Australia because there were no arrival stories in the Dreamtime. When I pointed out the absence of apes or other species hominids could evolve from, he quickly changed the subject.

More on topic. My Irish ancestory is beyond doubt, but my father always contended a direct relationship to a famous Irish politician of the same surname. I know this is not true, but my siblings believe it.
It’s absolutely likely that Warren believed her mother’s story that she had a more direct NA ancestory. She has that ancestory, but probably not as direct as she thought.

The supposed outrage of the Cherokee Nation is irrelevant as Warren is, and never did, seek membership of that tribe. Membership of aboriginal communities has similar criteria. You do not need to demonstrate any percentage of aboriginality, you have to be recognised by the local aboriginal community. Easier said than done.

As I said earlier, as Warren has not sought membership of a NA tribe, much of the conservative bleating in this thread is utter nonsense.
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My husband's Mormon family has a huge genealogy book (Mormons are big on genealogy). In it, it states that they are direct descendants of William Penn including a newspaper article stating it. It was my first foray into genealogy. It took me about 2 hours to totally disprove that family myth. They were indeed, related to Penn, but only through marriage as a direct ancestor was the sister of Penn's wife. It's very easy for family lore to be incorrect.
 
Pterodactyl said:
Sure. I'd buy that. But like I said I don't see why it matters.
The borders between north/central/south America were arbitrarily set by non native whites. I think it's pretty obvious that the americas were populated by descendants of a common lineage.
So if someone shows they have "native american" dna, this is true whether from north or south america, no?
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Yes. The line which that comment came from was talking about how DNA couldn't be used to establish lineage to a particular tribe. He was emphasizing that you couldn't tell an Inca from an Iroquois, much less a Cherokee from a Choctaw. (I don't know if that's a true statement, by the way. I just think that's what he was saying.)

Of course, membership in any tribe has nothing to do with Elizabeth Warren, but it's not the only irrelevant thing being brought up in this thread or in the general discussion in news sources about this topic.
 
Stacyhs said:
You do realize there is a vast distance, with lots of stops, between "good" and "bad", don't you? Or do you see the world in absolutes of black and white rather in shades of gray?
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Inability to see the world in black and light is poor creativity.
 
The Big Dog said:
Another article with links about how “cultural DNA testing” is the actual woo.

https://theslot.jezebel.com/our-vote-matters-very-little-kim-tallbear-on-elizabeth-1829783321

How many posts are you going to make in a row declaring it woo without citation?

I am guessing all of them?
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You're bad at this.

First, "cultural DNA testing" isn't a thing.
Second, you won't find "citations" for whether or not things are woo.
Thirdly, from your article, it seems Tallbear basically agrees with me:



KIM TALLBEAR: I think the better way to ask it is whether one can prove Native American identity through DNA testing. Although there are both social and scientific problems to this question, and the science would say that you can, with a great degree of probability, show Native American ancestry. That’s not the same as showing definitively that someone has the right to claim to be Native American as an identity, because it’s not ancestry alone that constitutes what it is to be a tribal member or even a Native American more broadly, at least from the point of view of Native Americans.
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So be an adult. Quit twisting my words to include phrases like "cultural identity" that I never used. And read what I wrote.
 
Pterodactyl said:
You're bad at this.

First, "cultural DNA testing" isn't a thing.
Second, you won't find "citations" for whether or not things are woo.
Thirdly, from your article, it seems Tallbear basically agrees with me:





So be an adult. Quit twisting my words to include phrases like "cultural identity" that I never used. And read what I wrote.
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Yeah, she totally does agree with everything she has explained about Warren’s disgraceful stunt being “woo.”

i already posted links about why these genetic tests for cultural heritage are junk science. I will wait in vain for you to post any cite.
 
citizenzen said:
Agreed.

If Native Americans are offended she took that test, then they’ll need to work out that butt-hurt on their own.

In the meantime, do the have any comment on trump’s using Pocahontas/Fauxcahontas as a childish, racist slur?

I know which one seems more offensive to me.
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Yeah but.. to Trump sycophants like TDB and River etc, ANYTHING Trump does, no matter how rude or racist or inappropriate, is just fine and dandy, while anything that an opponent of Trump does, no matter what it is, is met with flurries of whaddaboutdatLib.
 
The Big Dog said:
Here is Professor Kim Tall Bear’s explanation in detail about the political and cultural ramifications of Warren’s disgraceful stunt:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KimTallBear/status/1052017467021651969

Hopefully we can get some more explanation bout how this is woo or something.
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Politics makes for strange bedfellows. I can't imagine you citing any source that talks about appropriation of land, bones, and whatever else by "settler colonial" people, unless the target happened to be a prominent Democrat.

All she was really saying that made sense is that having a bit of DNA in you doesn't make you an Indian. The rest wasn't "woo" in the scientific sense, but there was a pretty significant level of political correctness thrown in to make up for the lack of woo.
 
smartcooky said:
It isn't nonsense, its fact.

Try doing some actual research, and until you have, shut up!



All right and wonderful IF YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE CHEROKEE ANCESTOR. What if you haven't? If all you have to go by is family stories, then that's all you got.

I grew up in the belief that on my father's side, we have "McDonalds of the Highlands" (Clan Donald) ancestry - it was a definite famiyl tradition that we didn't get on with Campbells (the Glencoe thing and all that). As children, we were taught that.

Well, we've been seven generations and guess what? Not a single Scotsman. When I had my DNA tested, no DNA traceable to the north of the British Isles at all. Everything is Anglo-French and Swiss (my mother was Swiss)
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Guess what! You should waste more money because those testing companies are ******** junk science woo.

Guess what!
 
The Big Dog said:
Yeah, she totally does agree with everything she has explained about Warren’s disgraceful stunt being “woo.”

i already posted links about why these genetic tests for cultural heritage are junk science. I will wait in vain for you to post any cite.
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There you go AGAIN.

"Genetic tests for cultural heritage"
What on earth are you talking about?
 
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