Electromagnetic field theory. Q and A

[Kumar]

Mmmm, aren't there some more questions on a more elementary level
Hans

How does Elementary/Fundamental particles can effect molecules? Can molecules of any substance absorb these Elementary/Fundamental particles & if yes then how these particles can effect properties of that nolecules?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar (question edited to show how I understand it):
Q: How do Elementary/Fundamental particles effect molecules?

A: Molecules consist of atoms, and atoms consist of elementary particles. So elemetary particles are the building-blocks of molecules.

Q: Can molecules of any substance absorb these Elementary/Fundamental particles & if yes then how these particles can effect properties of that nolecules?

A: Atoms (and thus molecules) can both absorb and emit fundamental particles, and this afects them in various ways.

Electrons. If an atom receives or gives up one or several electrons, it becomes electrically charged, or ionized. Its basic chemical and physical properties do not change, but its chemical reactivity can change.

Neutrons. An atom that receives or looses a neutron becomes an isotope. Its chemical properties do not change, but its mass does. Isotopes are often unstable and will decay in some way giving raise to various kinds of radiation.

Protons. If an atom receives or looses protons, it becomes a different substance. Both chemical and physical properties change. This happens during fusion, fission, and decay of isotopes. Such processes are always accompanied by the exchange of considerable amounts of energy, in form of various kinds of radiation.

Edited to add:

Photons: Energetic photons can interact with both atoms and molecules in various ways, causing both temporary and permanent changes.


Hans

 

[Kumar]

Edited to add:

Photons: Energetic photons can interact with both atoms and molecules in various ways, causing both temporary and permanent changes.
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Hans

Mr.Hans,

Thanks but sorry, I was willing to know about elementary/fundamental particles. Elecrons, proptons & neutrons are not considered as fundamental.

From the link previously mentioned::"In particle physics, an elementary particle is a particle of which other, larger particles are composed. For example, atoms are made up of smaller particles known as electrons, protons, and neutrons. The proton and neutron, in turn, are composed of more elementary particles known as quarks. One of the outstanding problems of particle physics is to find the most elementary particles - or the so-called fundamental particles - which make up all the other particles found in Nature, and are not themselves made up of smaller particles"

What are some permanent changes which photons can make in molecules/atoms?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar:

Q: Thanks but sorry, I was willing to know about elementary/fundamental particles. Elecrons, proptons & neutrons are not considered as fundamental.

A: On planet earth, they are. This is not just a joke, while science is able to analyse protons to theoretically consist of quaks, all you will observe normall is protons. Neutrons are really a proton and an electron, but since you cannot pry them apart under any condition you will ever get near to and live to tell about, all this is immaterial.

Q: What are some permanent changes which photons can make in molecules/atoms?

A: Chemical changes. Many chemical reactions are speeded up by light. For example photographic processes. Among the temporary changes, heating is an obvious example. Very energetic photons (like gamma rays) can even create isitopes, or make them decay.


You can make an experiment at home: Leave a newspaper in the sun for a couple of hours. It gets warm (temporary) and yellow (permanent).

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Mr.Hans,

Are photons or other fundamental particles are released on rubbing two substances/compounds--matellic or non-matellic?

 

[jj]

What are some permanent changes which photons can make in molecules/atoms?

Go google for chlorophyl, how about it?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar :
Q: Are photons or other fundamental particles are released on rubbing two substances/compounds--matellic or non-matellic?

A: Mechanical action can release electrons and/or photons under certain conditions. For instance, on a dry day, walk across a carpet dragging your feet, then touch a water-pipe. Chances are you'll get a jolt (not dangerous). You have just moved a lot of electrons around.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Go google for chlorophyl, how about it?

I think Kumar is already about to exceed his allowance of free Google searches.


(Silencio, amogos, por favor)

Hans

 

[69dodge]

Originally posted by davefoc
For instance if an electron is falling in a gravitational field are there photons being emitted?

You sure don't shy away from the hard questions, do you?

There is a nice thread about that in the archives of the sci.physics.research newsgroup. (Follow the "Next by thread" links to read the whole discussion.)

Actually, I'm not sure it really addresses your question, because it mainly treats radiation classically, and central to the discussion is the fact that it is gravity which is providing the acceleration. You're asking about any acceleration regardless of the cause, I think, but you want to treat the radiation quantum mechanically, i.e., as consisting of photons.

Roughly speaking, yes, an accelerating electron emits photons. But the fine print is that if classical acceleration is a reasonably accurate description of the electron's behavior, it will be emitting a large number of photons; and conversely, the emission of a single photon by an electron is inherently a quantum mechanical sort of thing, and an accurate description of it must treat the electron, not just the photon, quantum mechanically.

Here's something from Feynman's Lectures on Physics (volume 1, chapter 26) that might be relevant:<blockquote>This is the first of a number of chapters on the subject of electromagnetic radiation. Light, with which we see, is only one small part of a vast spectrum of the same kind of thing, the various parts of this spectrum being distinguished by different values of a certain quantity which varies. This variable quantity could be called the "wavelength." As it varies in the visible spectrum, the light apparently changes color from red to violet. If we explore the spectrum systematically, from long wavelengths toward shorter ones, we would begin with what are ususally called radiowaves. Radiowaves are technically available in a wide range of wavelengths, some even longer than those used in regular broadcasts; regular broadcasts have wavelengths corresponding to about 500 meters. Then there are the so-called "short waves," i.e., radar waves, millimeter waves, and so on. There are no actual boundaries between one range of wavelengths and another, because nature did not present us with sharp edges, The number associated with a given name for the waves are only approximate and, of course, so are the names we give to the different ranges.

Then, a long way down through the millimeter waves, we come to what we call the infrared, and thence to the visible spectrum. Then going in the other direction, we get into a region which is called the ultraviolet. Where the ultraviolet stops, the x-rays begin, but we cannot define precisely where this is; it is roughly at 10^-8 m, or 10^-2 microns. These are "soft" x-rays; then there are ordinary x-rays and very hard x-rays; then gamma rays, and so on, for smaller and smaller values of this dimension called the wavelength.

Within this vast range of wavelengths, there are three or more regions of approximation which are especially interesting. In one of these, a condition exists in which the wavelengths involved are very small compared with the dimensions of the equipment available for their study; furthermore, the photon energies, using the quantum theory, are small compared with the energy sensitivity of the equipment. Under these conditions we can make a rough first approximation by a method called geometrical optics. If, on the other hand, the wavelengths are comparable to the dimensions of the equipment, which is difficult to arrange with visible light but easier with radiowaves, and if the photon energies are still negligibly small, then a useful approximation can be made by studying the behavior of the waves, still disregarding the quantum mechanics. This method is based on the classical theory of electromagnetic radiation, which will be discussed in a later chapter. Next, if we go to very short wavelengths, where we can disregard the wave character but the photons have a very large energy compared with the sensitivity of our equipment, things get simple again. This is the simple photon picture, which we will describe only very roughly. The complete picture, which unifies the whole thing into one model, will not be available to us for a long time.</blockquote>

 

[69dodge]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
QM is a very complex field

no pun intended ...

 

[Mongpoovian]

Mr.Hans,

Thanks but sorry, I was willing to know about elementary/fundamental particles. Elecrons, proptons & neutrons are not considered as fundamental.

The problem with this is that you can't have isolated quarks or gluons. Quarks in the form of protons opr neutrons can interact, but fundamental particles are not important on the chemical scale.

What are some permanent changes which photons can make in molecules/atoms?

Energy in the form of photons affects molecules in different ways. Infrared light causes vibrations, microwave radiation causes rotations. Once you get into the UV, you can start cleaving bonds and producing the "free radicals" that nutritionists hate. Certain reactions are catalyzed by light for this reason.

 

[epepke]

Mr.Hans,

Thanks but sorry, I was willing to know about elementary/fundamental particles. Elecrons, proptons & neutrons are not considered as fundamental.

Electrons are currently viewed as point particles, not made up of anything else.

What are some permanent changes which photons can make in molecules/atoms?

Go out and get a tan in the sun for one instance.

 

[Kumar]

Mongpoovian, epepke,

Thanks. It appears from above discussions that rubbing two materials(compounds) or shaking/vibrating any material can release photons & photons can effect properties of any/ both materials rubbed together. Is it clear?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar:

Q: Thanks. It appears from above discussions that rubbing two materials(compounds) or shaking/vibrating any material can release photons & photons can effect properties of any/ both materials rubbed together. Is it clear?

A: No that is not a conclusion you can draw. The keyword is "any". This does not apply to "any" material. For instance, if you were to put some finely ground silica into water and shake it or pound it on the rear of a leather-bound book, none of these effects would take place, if you get my meaning .

Some materials will release photons when rubbed together, and some materials will change when irradiated with photons, but most materials and combinations of materials will not.

Hans

 

[Kumar]

A: No that is not a conclusion you can draw. The keyword is "any". This does not apply to "any" material. For instance, if you were to put some finely ground silica into water and shake it or pound it on the rear of a leather-bound book, none of these effects would take place, if you get my meaning .

Some materials will release photons when rubbed together, and some materials will change when irradiated with photons, but most materials and combinations of materials will not.

Hans

"Photons can be produced in a variety of ways, including emission from electrons as they change energy states or orbitals. They can also be created by nuclear transitions, particle-antiparticle annihilation or any fluctuations in an electromagnetic field."

Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose as in homeopathic remedies--all these produces heat. What is this heat?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar:
Q: Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose as in homeopathic remedies--all these produces heat. What is this heat?

A: It is a form of energy. Heat can be transferred by photons, so indirectly, rubbing may cause photons to be emitted in the form of deep infrared radiation. Happy now?

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Kumar:
Q: Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose as in homeopathic remedies--all these produces heat. What is this heat?

A: It is a form of energy. Heat can be transferred by photons, so indirectly, rubbing may cause photons to be emitted in the form of deep infrared radiation. Happy now?

Hans

It means: Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose of any material can produce photons & materials can be effected permanentaly by these photons. Is it right now?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar:
Q: It means: Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose of any material can produce photons & materials can be effected permanentaly by these photons. Is it right now?

A: I wonder if you are making fun of me, or you are really this naive?

OK, Kumar, this is the last "possible verification of homeopathy" question you get answered on this thread (and I have already been too patient with you).

Your little thesis is wrong on two accounts:

1) Photons are not just photons. The heat wave photons generated by the mentioned kind of mechanical action are extremely low energy photons. Their wavelenghts are (we were past this in Coghill's thread) in the order of 10-20 micrometers, which is many thousand times the size of a molecule or atom. For this reason, they are totally incapable of interacting with molecules and atoms and change them in any way. Not only that, but they are just a drop in the ocean of identical heatwaves that surround us all the time at normal temperatures.

2) There is no reason to look for such a mechanism at all. Homeopathic remedies are NOT chemically different from pure medium, rememeber? If they were, no matter how the difference came about, we would be able to tell the diffrence between a homeopathic remedy and a blank, and we are not. Even homeopaths cannot tell the difference. Not even if they are paid a million dollars for it.

Now, are there any on topic questions? Roger? Where are you??

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Kumar:
Q: It means: Rubbing, grinding, shaking with water/ triturating with lactose of any material can produce photons & materials can be effected permanentaly by these photons. Is it right now?

A: I wonder if you are making fun of me, or you are really this naive?

OK, Kumar, this is the last "possible verification of homeopathy" question you get answered on this thread (and I have already been too patient with you).

Your little thesis is wrong on two accounts:

1) Photons are not just photons. The heat wave photons generated by the mentioned kind of mechanical action are extremely low energy photons. Their wavelenghts are (we were past this in Coghill's thread) in the order of 10-20 micrometers, which is many thousand times the size of a molecule or atom. For this reason, they are totally incapable of interacting with molecules and atoms and change them in any way. Not only that, but they are just a drop in the ocean of identical heatwaves that surround us all the time at normal temperatures.

2) There is no reason to look for such a mechanism at all. Homeopathic remedies are NOT chemically different from pure medium, rememeber? If they were, no matter how the difference came about, we would be able to tell the diffrence between a homeopathic remedy and a blank, and we are not. Even homeopaths cannot tell the difference. Not even if they are paid a million dollars for it.

Now, are there any on topic questions? Roger? Where are you??

Hans

Mr. Hans,

Thanks. Anyway effect is there. To measure its permanent effect on material is an advanced consideration for modern testing technology--which we may know at some later date.

 

[MRC_Hans]

OK, Kumar, welcome on my ignore list. Do you realize how deeply insulting it is that you ask rows of questions, get careful explanations, then just repeat your preconceived conclusion as if nothing had happened? There is absolutely no reason to go through all this when you do not give a danm about the answers anyway. You are either an idiot or a troll.



Hans