Electric Vehicles

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"Cheap little EVs" have been coming "in the next few months" for about 20 years now.
 
Kestrel said:
Can this small Chinese EV pass US or EU safety standards?
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No.

That's the loop we've been stuck in for years.

"We'll make a cheap EV! They have them in China!"
"Okay but now add America/European safety features."
"Oh well now the EV costs another 5 grand and weights another couple of hundred pounds so it has the same cost and range/performance as the EVs we already have."
 
There have been and are "cheap" EVs available in the US, but they are sort of like souped up golf carts or enclosed electric motorcycles. The ones built like the cars we are used to are more expensive when new. But, the price should come down soon as there is more competition and the technology gets less expensive.

The used market, however, offers some good deals right now. Nissan Leafs are available for well under $10,000. My fully-loaded BMW i3 was under $15,000.
 
//Slight hijack//

The whole idea that you can get around safety features by making something that technically classifies as a motorcycle instead of a car has never sat well with me.

If it's enclosed it's a car and should be treated as such because consumers will use them as such.
 
JoeMorgue said:
//Slight hijack//

The whole idea that you can get around safety features by making something that technically classifies as a motorcycle instead of a car has never sat well with me.

If it's enclosed it's a car and should be treated as such because consumers will use them as such.
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Such a vehicle would be termed a quadricycle.

The new Citroen Ami is an example. It's limited on speed and in France can be driven, without a licence, by people as young as 14.

https://www.citroen.co.uk/models/future-models/ami.html
 
I looked more closely at the F150 hybrid and while it is good, I may wait for the next iteration. It has a tiny battery and really can’t do anything on electric alone. The electric just adds capability to the gas engine. Then they chose one of their highest performing gas engines to pair it with. I like the idea of a truck that has performance specs close to an ‘80s Countach with twice the mileage, but I don’t really need that.

I’ll wait until they pair the hybrid with the smaller eco boost engine and add a larger battery option. I don’t know if I’ll have the patience to wait for a plug in hybrid truck.
 
Dr. Keith said:
I mean, do we really need so many French teens?
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There's a long and proud history of allowing French teens to drive unsafe vehicles. IIRC the petrol versions used to be referred to as "Sputniks" by truck drivers because they launched so easily.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Kind of defeats the purpose of having safety standards for vehicles at all.
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I can easily see a good case for having relaxed standards for low speed vehicles, so long as the existence of such vehicles is appropriately regulated.

For example, mopeds in the US usually require less licensing requirements than a motorcycle and are limited to 50cc engines, which limit their speed to about 20mph. Mopeds are not permitted on interstates and many highways with travel speeds that make this unsafe. It's like riding a bike, but without the workout.

I can totally see the justification in less rigid safety standards and licensing for vehicles that are never going to travel at high speeds. Limiting these vehicles to low speed surface streets would still make them viable solutions for getting around town on the cheap.
 
Okay but we don't have that.

I'm about to risk pissing of probably the biggest and defensive fandom in the world but... you can take motorcycle on the highway and drive full highway speed with zero safety features. So it's not about low speed or neighborhood driving.

But here in America startups keep making three wheeled vehicles which they can then classify as "motorcycles/tricycles/etc" and not meet safety standards.

Also America just doesn't have that "city car / an actual real car" distinction in its mentality all that much.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay but we don't have that.

I'm about to risk pissing of probably the biggest and defensive fandom in the world but... you can take motorcycle on the highway and drive full highway speed with zero safety features. So it's not about low speed or neighborhood driving.

But here in America startups keep making three wheeled vehicles which they can then classify as "motorcycles/tricycles/etc" and not meet safety standards.

Also America just doesn't have that "city car / an actual real car" distinction in its mentality all that much.
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Yeah, but the purpose of small vehicles is not to avoid safety. If* a little city car like that Chinese Mini doesn't meet all the safety requirements for a car it might still be worth considering whether it's safe enough to create a new class of vehicle, to allow restricted use, like a limited top speed and not being allowed on freeways.

*Will obviously vary from one place to another but which safety standards could it not meet? I presume it has regular seatbelts, airbags and ABS, plus probably some form of stability control.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Yeah, but the purpose of small vehicles is not to avoid safety.
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No I'm saying the purpose of that entire "I'm a car but no LOL for legal reasons I'm motorcycle" subgenre of cheap vehicles (some of which are electric so this isn't totally off topic) is exactly that and that can only exist because we've normalized this one arbitrary type of completely unsafe vehicle on the road, all roads not just low speed / inner city ones, with motorcycles.

I'm basically saying why have safety standards at all if we're okay with motorcycles? It seems super-arbitrary, based on nothing but vehicle popularity.

Just take one of the those Chinese tin cans with the safety features it already has and put it on the road. It would be safer then a motorcycle and we're okay with those.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Okay but we don't have that.

I'm about to risk pissing of probably the biggest and defensive fandom in the world but... you can take motorcycle on the highway and drive full highway speed with zero safety features. So it's not about low speed or neighborhood driving.

But here in America startups keep making three wheeled vehicles which they can then classify as "motorcycles/tricycles/etc" and not meet safety standards.

Also America just doesn't have that "city car / an actual real car" distinction in its mentality all that much.
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Perhaps I'm not well informed. Most of the three wheeled trikes I see are pretty clearly meant as recreational vehicles similar to regular motorcycles and not as safety-standard evading cars.

Do you have some examples in mind?

Edit: Seems like a simple rule would be that anything considered a motorcycle can't have an enclosed cabin. That would probably eliminate any loophole for cars trying to evade safety standards.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Perhaps I'm not well informed. Most of the three wheeled trikes I see are pretty clearly meant as recreational vehicles similar to regular motorcycles and not as safety-standard evading cars.

Do you have some examples in mind?
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I don't care what they are "intended" as. They are driven on the road, used as day to day drivers, used to commute to work, etc.
 
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