Electric Vehicles

[crescent]

Yeah but the EV equivalent to "I ran out of gas and I'm stuck on the side of the road" is still going to happen from time to time and with an EV you're getting towed to the nearest compatible charger, you can't have AAA or a buddy swing by with a Jerry Can.

Again I'm not saying this will be a common occurrence, I'm saying that this is the kind of uncommon but not like super-rare problems we will need some sort of plan/infastructure/process for dealing with as EVs become more and more common.

//Note// This information and specs come the manufacture who is currently seeking funding and have not, to my knowledge, been independently verified, so grain of salt.

The SparkCharge Roadie emergency battery claims to add 10-15 miles, in a package that is 19.8 lbs (9 kgs) and 9.4x12.6x23.6 inches (240x320x600mm)

//Note the picture below shows 4 of the devices, not one. They are stackable/linkable to increase available range/power, again according to the manufacturer.//

[qimg]https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/149341764_1670462956490643_7155703332588835123_n.png?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=-0Z9DhqiRJ0AX_a8sgK&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=b5b60df4c09e56a4d020c6b0201fee72&oe=6067568E[/qimg]

This article has a bit more information on the Sparkcharge:

Mobile Charging for EVs Could Be The Future With A Startup Called SparkCharge

You download the SparkCharge app, called BoostEV, and report where you are and how much of a charge (as in range) you need. A SparkCharge “provider” arrives and uses the company’s chargers to charge your vehicle and get you on your way. It’s somewhat like AAA for your EV.

 

[bruto]

Also if we're waiting on a bunch of competing car companies to agree on a universal battery format we might as well just wait on "Literal Magic Cars Powered by Fairy Dust."

I think one real problem with a battery standard here is that it's too soon to anticipate a fast-growing technology. We could end up stuck with standards that disallow a better design, which would either mean bad design to follow, or a continual change of standards to follow.

In addition a standardized size and connection does not guarantee an equal battery. We have standard sizes for flashlight batteries, but I'd be mighty peeved if when my lithium Energizers go slack they are replaced willy-nilly with dollar store carbon batteries that fit. If you just bought the latest Tesla, you're not going to want to swap its battery out for Brand X from China, no matter how fresh it is.

 

[SezMe]

Agreed. But I do think a standard charger/battery connector will eventually emerge - maybe helped along with some legislation.

 

[jadebox]

The battery swapping idea might work technically for things like fleet vehicles, but just having a few extra vehicles to charge while others are in use would probably make better economic sense.

I can't see battery swapping working at all for general vehicles. It would add to the cost of the vehicle, possibly force some design limitations, add weight and complexity, and the cost for the battery swap would be too much compared to a fast charge.

BTW, making the battery swappable in an EV is much more complicated than just designing electrical connections. There is also the thermal management system which is complicated in more modern batteries. in addition to having to be able to connect and disconnect that without leakage, if any foreign objects get into the system it could destroy the battery.

I guess some concession could be made where only a part of the car's battery is replaceable and it can only be charged at low rate if charged in the car. Then it wouldn't need as much thermal protection. But, that would make it take longer to charge your car to its full capacity and reduce the range you can swap in.

 

[bruto]

Agreed. But I do think a standard charger/battery connector will eventually emerge - maybe helped along with some legislation.

I think there already is a standard charger connection. Tesla's supercharger connection is an exception, but for regular charging it's uniform, as far as I know.

 

[Dr. Keith]

ETA: Probably should have checked to see if Ford had already had that idea.

The 2021 Ford F-150 with PowerBoost Hybrid Engine with "Pro-power Onboard" that can power devices up to a 240v, 4000w arc welder onsite.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/fe...82215968958!e!!g!!electric f 150&gclsrc=aw.ds

Not exactly what I was thinking but close, and obviously coming from the same base idea.

It is my most likely next truck. Probably a couple of years off, but I really like the hybrid concept for all the reasons you mention.

 

[Delvo]

I think there already is a standard charger connection. Tesla's supercharger connection is an exception, but for regular charging it's uniform, as far as I know.

No. There are at least two other separate ones in the USA made by separate companies like GM for their own vehicles, and three or four others in Europe. In the USA, Tesla offered to let other companies use theirs for the sake of uniformity, and they refused. (I don't know whether Tesla wanted money for that.) Some fraction of charging stations have multiple separate plugs apiece, and the vehicle owners know they need to either be sure where to get to the right kind or have adapters on hand at all times in case they find themselves at a charger without the right one.

 

[Shalamar]

No. There are at least two other separate ones in the USA made by separate companies like GM for their own vehicles, and three or four others in Europe. In the USA, Tesla offered to let other companies use theirs for the sake of uniformity, and they refused. (I don't know whether Tesla wanted money for that.) Some fraction of charging stations have multiple separate plugs apiece, and the vehicle owners know they need to either be sure where to get to the right kind or have adapters on hand at all times in case they find themselves at a charger without the right one.

Tesla wanted other companies to license the connectors, since tesla built and paid for it's super charger network.

Most non-tesla connectors use the J1772 standard, some also include CHAdeMo.

My Tesla came with a J1772 adapter so I can use most chargers in North America.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

BTW, making the battery swappable in an EV is much more complicated than just designing electrical connections. There is also the thermal management system which is complicated in more modern batteries. in addition to having to be able to connect and disconnect that without leakage, if any foreign objects get into the system it could destroy the battery.

That’s a good point I had not considered.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I think there already is a standard charger connection.

Standards are awesome. That's why we have so many of them.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I repeat. Battery swapping is here. Well, there.

It's a fascinating thing to watch. Completely automated. Car drives in to robot shed, 5 mins later drives out with a different battery pack.

I suspect that isn't a liquid cooled battery system though. (I mean, on second thoughts I could be wrong, you could design it with a sealed internal heat circulating system and make the whole top plate of the battery a heatsink which mates with a liquid-cooled plate on the bottom of the car and that could work.) Still, it's a lot of equipment to do several swaps per hour. Wonder how long the stored batteries take to recharge in there. That might be the limiting factor on throughput.

It's an interesting approach to one particular problem with adoption; that a significant portion of potential customers want the cars but can't afford to pay upfront for the battery.

 

[xterra]

I think there already is a standard charger connection. Tesla's supercharger connection is an exception, but for regular charging it's uniform, as far as I know.

There are already SAE standards. Look at

https://chargehub.com/en/electric-car-charging-guide.html


(Sorry Blue Mountain, I just can't seem to produce the URL format you like.)

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Yes, I can imagine long queues at peak time.

More details on swapping here. It's only one model and, I presume, only one of the three battery options (70, 84 and 100 Kwh), though I dare say it's clever enough to know what battery size you are swapping.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes, I can imagine long queues at peak time.

More details on swapping here. It's only one model and, I presume, only one of the three battery options (70, 84 and 100 Kwh), though I dare say it's clever enough to know what battery size you are swapping.

Browsing their website it mentions their "battery as a service" deal gets you up to 12 free battery swaps per year (and 12 out of town charges, where they drive to you with a recharger van) so they expect owners usually to recharge conventionally.

The deal is 128,000 yuan off the purchase price for a 1,480 monthly fee instead, for the big 100kWh battery. (That's about US$20,000 off list price for $230/month fee. Cheapest model with smaller battery is $55,000, without battery is $43,000 plus $150/month.)

Perhaps the most interesting thing about that is that it takes around 7 years of monthly fees just to cover the initial price of the battery. They're confident the batteries will last.

 

[bruto]

I somehow suspect that the battery swapping model will result in some unwanted results. Unless the scheme allows some credit for remaining charge, people who have paid for their kilowatts are not going to want to give them away to the battery swapping service, and will be trying to get the last little bit of juice out first.

My suspicion is that this will lead to more strandings, unless there's either a credit for remaining charge or a subscription model in which people prepay some fixed rate that is independent of battery charge or the number of swaps.

 

[gnome]

Two excellent solutions.

 

[Segnosaur]

Widespread charging stations would coincidentally solve a different problem I've had on my mind lately.

Sometimes I imagine equipping a big van to live in full-time and not having an apartment or house anymore.

Would you also wear an ascot and drive around solving mysteries involving old man Jenkins pretending to be a ghost?

 

[SezMe]

I think there already is a standard charger connection. Tesla's supercharger connection is an exception, but for regular charging it's uniform, as far as I know.

I read from this that standardization is more wish than reality.

 

[Wudang]

I somehow suspect that the battery swapping model will result in some unwanted results. Unless the scheme allows some credit for remaining charge, people who have paid for their kilowatts are not going to want to give them away to the battery swapping service, and will be trying to get the last little bit of juice out first.

My suspicion is that this will lead to more strandings, unless there's either a credit for remaining charge or a subscription model in which people prepay some fixed rate that is independent of battery charge or the number of swaps.

I'd also worry about the quality of batteries being swapped in. Sure, in theory, there would be guarantees but everyone has had experience of dodgy mechanics.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I'd also worry about the quality of batteries being swapped in. Sure, in theory, there would be guarantees but everyone has had experience of dodgy mechanics.

I’m thinking most of us already “swap in” our energy source every time we pull up to a pump. Regulation allows us not to worry too much about the quality of the gas or the accuracy of the pump, and pricing is transparent and competitive. If battery swapping becomes widespread, I agree such “guarantees” would be required, with batteries tested and removed from service if they dropped below a certain capacity.