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Electric Vehicles

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I like the sentiment, but can't help but wonder if that is the right approach.
EV cars and trucks are an improvement over the current fleet of ICE vehicles, agreed, but the entire "car culture" (sorry for the use of the C-word in this thread) that came out of those decades was harmful (arguably) in more ways than the CO2 it generates.

Perhaps it is enough to simply discourage CO2 emitting vehicles, without spending public money to switch to something that is only a little better.
How about Biden be remembered for making rail travel more practical and attractive for most Americans instead?

Indeed, I think this argument has merit. It's one of the problems I've always had with the idea of self-driving cars. Unfortunately, I think rail transit is going to be very difficult nowadays owing to the density of population and the abandonment of existing rail lines. Buses of course are another possibility, though.

To me, that is the biggest issue with the "battery swap" model.
What if my battery still has 75% of a charge, but I know I am about to make a long trip and want to "top off"? Would I pay only 25% of the cost of a "full" swap?

Also a considerable issue. I don't think a swap-only option would ever work, but I can see it as being a possible second alternative, though I also think it would always be less economical than charging without some way of crediting for residual charge. Perhaps a rebate depending on what charge a swapped-out battery requires. I don't think it would ever work well for cash.
 
Not at all. The supercharger recognises your car and charges the amount to your credit card. Nothing to do except plug in.

Tesla superchargers are easier to use than most gas pumps. It would be nice to see that kind of automatic billing with other EV brands and charging networks.
 
Tesla superchargers are easier to use than most gas pumps. It would be nice to see that kind of automatic billing with other EV brands and charging networks.

I'm subscribed to a couple of networks of networks just in case and they work by reading RFID in a plastic card, so only slightly more complicated.
 
What is the nominal battery voltage typically on EVs?
Amp draw when charging?

480V (I assume you want the charging voltage), hundreds of amps varying by speed of charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger


That's the Supercharger. Most EV owners charge at home, mostly with 240v connections pulling 30 to 50 amps.



ETA:
How to Choose a Home EV Charger

A Quick Guide to How Much Current You Need for Each Charging Speed
Required Circuit / Breaker Rating Charger Amperage Estimated Driving Range Added Per Hour of Charging
20A 16A 12 mi (19 km)
30A 24A 18 mi (29 km)
40A 32A 25 mi (40 km)
50A 40A 30 mi (48 km)
60A 48A 36 mi (58 km)
70A/80A 50A 37 mi (60 km)

Most American home 220/240v outlets intended for clothes driers and electric ovens are on 30 or 40 amp fuses.
 
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What is the nominal battery voltage typically on EVs?
Amp draw when charging?

It varies a lot.

Mine is a 15 amp plug, but in Australia, the cars are set up to draw 8 amps at 240V.

Five hours for a full charge from empty.

(I recharge twice per week, typically, in summer. Three times per week in winter).
 
Tesla superchargers are easier to use than most gas pumps. It would be nice to see that kind of automatic billing with other EV brands and charging networks.
Not if they desire my business.
I use cash for nearly every transaction. Not being able to make untraceable fuel purchases would be enough of an issue with me to cause me to go ICE.
 
Not if they desire my business.
I use cash for nearly every transaction. Not being able to make untraceable fuel purchases would be enough of an issue with me to cause me to go ICE.

Tesla Superchargers have no employees watching over them. They have no card slots. You must have a card attached to your Tesla Account in order to use the superchargers, even if you have free miles.
 
Not if they desire my business.
I use cash for nearly every transaction. Not being able to make untraceable fuel purchases would be enough of an issue with me to cause me to go ICE.

That's getting harder every day. We've been moving to a cashless world and either way you're likely to be forced into the 21st century.

BTW, you may pay your electric bill in cash but that payment is recorded. Do you have a cell phone? We can track any phone you might carry.
 
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I realize we're heading toward a cashless world, and I use credit cards for plenty nowadays, but I hope there is never a time when we can't buy things without depending on the power being on, the servers operational, the batteries charged. When you can still decide to give a buck to a busker or a beggar, and so on.

Now I really don't have much to hide, but I can see how some people might find it very objectionable that some nameless agency can trace how they spend their money, and on what.

Side issue I know. But it would bother me if I must have a current and functional account, and with a specific manufacturer too, in order to run my car.

There have been a couple of times, for example, when the card I was using for gas was frozen owing to a security breach, or for some reason just failed to work. I can always switch to another card or to cash and sort it all out later. If I were driving a Tesla and stopped at a Tesla station with too little charge to go somewhere else, and my card didn't work, what then?

We will need a robust and flexible infrastructure once enough drivers are driving a varied enough fleet of electric cars to introduce an element of chaos, and once the small percentage of malfunctions starts adding up to a bigger absolute number.

One of the more obvious bits of technology, I would think, would be a cash-swallowing machine like the supermarket checkouts. Go to self-checking pump, and it takes either a credit card or bills. Put in a 20, and the timer starts. Whatever the charge per kilowatt is, you get twenty bucks' worth per bill. Easy, existing technology.
 
I realize we're heading toward a cashless world, and I use credit cards for plenty nowadays, but I hope there is never a time when we can't buy things without depending on the power being on, the servers operational, the batteries charged. When you can still decide to give a buck to a busker or a beggar, and so on.

Now I really don't have much to hide, but I can see how some people might find it very objectionable that some nameless agency can trace how they spend their money, and on what.

Side issue I know. But it would bother me if I must have a current and functional account, and with a specific manufacturer too, in order to run my car.

There have been a couple of times, for example, when the card I was using for gas was frozen owing to a security breach, or for some reason just failed to work. I can always switch to another card or to cash and sort it all out later. If I were driving a Tesla and stopped at a Tesla station with too little charge to go somewhere else, and my card didn't work, what then?

We will need a robust and flexible infrastructure once enough drivers are driving a varied enough fleet of electric cars to introduce an element of chaos, and once the small percentage of malfunctions starts adding up to a bigger absolute number.

One of the more obvious bits of technology, I would think, would be a cash-swallowing machine like the supermarket checkouts. Go to self-checking pump, and it takes either a credit card or bills. Put in a 20, and the timer starts. Whatever the charge per kilowatt is, you get twenty bucks' worth per bill. Easy, existing technology.

I understand all of that and I too buy almost everything in cash. But it is getting harder almost every day. That said, the one purchase I make that I almost always use a card with is buying gas. You don't have to go into the station and wait in line. Just slide the card into the pump and you're good to go. I live in Washington State and you use to be able to use cash at the pump kiosks, but very few stations can you do that with any more.

I have no doubt that EVs are going to dramatically change the fueling paradigm. Maybe in the future there will be charging stations that you can use cash.
 
I understand all of that and I too buy almost everything in cash. But it is getting harder almost every day. That said, the one purchase I make that I almost always use a card with is buying gas. You don't have to go into the station and wait in line. Just slide the card into the pump and you're good to go. I live in Washington State and you use to be able to use cash at the pump kiosks, but very few stations can you do that with any more.

I have no doubt that EVs are going to dramatically change the fueling paradigm. Maybe in the future there will be charging stations that you can use cash.

"I'd like 25 watt hours on charger #4 please."
 
That will be 7 cents please.
Probably less than 1/100th of a cent if my math is right.

BTW, a gas station I went to once had a sign offering hot dogs for ".99 cents each." I was tempted to ask for 100 of them to go.
 
I understand all of that and I too buy almost everything in cash. But it is getting harder almost every day. That said, the one purchase I make that I almost always use a card with is buying gas. You don't have to go into the station and wait in line. Just slide the card into the pump and you're good to go. I live in Washington State and you use to be able to use cash at the pump kiosks, but very few stations can you do that with any more.

I have no doubt that EVs are going to dramatically change the fueling paradigm. Maybe in the future there will be charging stations that you can use cash.

I also use credit cards for gas almost every time, partly for convenience and partly because if the pump rejects a card I know it's in immediate need of attention.

I am quite sure that if the vendors want to do it, they can set things up in numerous practical ways. One might expect that they'd carry over the general way it's done for gas, but one never knows.
 
I think I've mentioned before that I've used barely any cash at all for over a year now. Every place I need to spend money has a tap-and-go facility. It works really well and is the killer app for the cashless society.
 
Probably less than 1/100th of a cent if my math is right.

BTW, a gas station I went to once had a sign offering hot dogs for ".99 cents each." I was tempted to ask for 100 of them to go.

Or Verizon quoting people ".002 cents per Kilobyte" but charging .2 cents

(warning, be prepared to be irrationally angry)
 
I understand all of that and I too buy almost everything in cash.

Good for you. But I go the other way whenever possible. Such that a $20 bill in my wallet may last for many weeks, or a month or more without getting used.

For me, it makes sense. With some big ticket items - health insurance, auto and home insurance, cellular bills as examples - and the vast majority of daily spending going on the card, we average around $3,500 to $4,500 a month on our credit card bills. We always pay the balance due, no matter what. With the cards paying between 1% and 3% rewards, that’s typically $40 to $50 a month we can use towards Amazon purchases, or whatever. Not a huge amount, but it’s free money and it adds up.

As an aside, we use ApplePay whenever we can. It’s just a bit more secure, with our actual credit card number never being revealed. Since we’ve had our credit cards compromised three times, that’s a plus. Never cost us anything, but still a hassle transferring all the recurring payments to the new card.
 
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