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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

Rolfe said:
That's the correct response. The hybrid's only purpose is as a gateway drug for those who don't realise instantly that an EV is the way to go!
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I think that's true of older hybrids, but I'm not sure about some newer plug-ins. I have heard some very good stuff about Toyota's plug-n hybrid, which apparntly runs on electric most of the time, and only cuts the gas motor on when needed, using a nifty new style transmission. That seems a pretty nice compromise between electric operation and range anxiety. The old Prius basically ran on gas most of the time, and didn't get much better mileage than my little gasser, but the latest version looks pretty good if what I read is true.
 
Rolfe said:
Toyota invented the concept of "range anxiety" and pushed the concept to promote the sales of its hybrids. Seems like it's still working.
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Not quite. It was actually invented in 1997 by a journalist talking about GM's EV1. Toyota played on it in 2010 to promote their hybrids, but to be fair the only commercial EV available at that time (the Nissan Leaf) did have poor range.

I used to only put ~110 km of petrol in my gas car, so I thought range anxiety wouldn't be an issue for me. When I got my Leaf I measured the range at 95 km, which is further than I ever want to go. But the fear of running out combined with a lying 'guessometer' that overestimated range by 50% meant I was constantly looking at the display to check that it had enough. As the car aged the range reduced more and the range indicator got less reliable.

I need to do another test to find out how much range I actually have now. Would like to use Leafspy to check the battery health etc., but I've bought 3 different OBD adapters so far and none of them worked.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Not quite. It was actually invented in 1997 by a journalist talking about GM's EV1. Toyota played on it in 2010 to promote their hybrids, but to be fair the only commercial EV available at that time (the Nissan Leaf) did have poor range.

I used to only put ~110 km of petrol in my gas car, so I thought range anxiety wouldn't be an issue for me. When I got my Leaf I measured the range at 95 km, which is further than I ever want to go. But the fear of running out combined with a lying 'guessometer' that overestimated range by 50% meant I was constantly looking at the display to check that it had enough. As the car aged the range reduced more and the range indicator got less reliable.

I need to do another test to find out how much range I actually have now. Would like to use Leafspy to check the battery health etc., but I've bought 3 different OBD adapters so far and none of them worked.
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Yes it's an issue for me.

Most of the time it would be fine but also do 500 or 1000km trips several times a year.
 
bruto said:
I think that's true of older hybrids, but I'm not sure about some newer plug-ins. I have heard some very good stuff about Toyota's plug-n hybrid, which apparntly runs on electric most of the time, and only cuts the gas motor on when needed, using a nifty new style transmission. That seems a pretty nice compromise between electric operation and range anxiety. The old Prius basically ran on gas most of the time, and didn't get much better mileage than my little gasser, but the latest version looks pretty good if what I read is true.
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Mine is what they call a full hybrid so the car charges the battery, you never have to plug it in. According to some reviews apparently can only do a mile and a half in pure electric, but I'm easily seeing upto 5 on pure electric, and then the petrol engine cuts in but only to charge the battery so will be revving at 1000rpm to 1500rpm. I went with the hybrid for the fuel economy as most of my driving is short urban trips under 30mph and I'm seeing around 60mpg in the real world (which is higher than the manufacturer's claimed 55mpg). The reason for not going for an electric is when I move I'll be having to park on the street and the local authority isn't giving planning permission for under pavement installations. Which is what this damned Labour government has said it is abolishing! Why they didn't inform ME a month ago when I bought the new car just shows how terrible they are. That aside I love the ride in the new car, it cleverly uses the electric motor at higher speeds to give you extra "umph" which is great for overtaking etc. It has one "fault", up steep hills or very long inclines it can feel as if it is over reving and you'd expect it to drop a gear, but what it is doing is splitting the revs, so it's as if half the revs are going to keep the battery topped up (to give you the umph even up a hill) and half for the actual climb. This is disconcerting for some owners because usually the engine is very quiet and you hardly ever hear the engine.
 
Darat said:
Mine is what they call a full hybrid so the car charges the battery, you never have to plug it in. According to some reviews apparently can only do a mile and a half in pure electric, but I'm easily seeing upto 5 on pure electric, and then the petrol engine cuts in but only to charge the battery so will be revving at 1000rpm to 1500rpm. I went with the hybrid for the fuel economy as most of my driving is short urban trips under 30mph and I'm seeing around 60mpg in the real world (which is higher than the manufacturer's claimed 55mpg). The reason for not going for an electric is when I move I'll be having to park on the street and the local authority isn't giving planning permission for under pavement installations. Which is what this damned Labour government has said it is abolishing! Why they didn't inform ME a month ago when I bought the new car just shows how terrible they are. That aside I love the ride in the new car, it cleverly uses the electric motor at higher speeds to give you extra "umph" which is great for overtaking etc. It has one "fault", up steep hills or very long inclines it can feel as if it is over reving and you'd expect it to drop a gear, but what it is doing is splitting the revs, so it's as if half the revs are going to keep the battery topped up (to give you the umph even up a hill) and half for the actual climb. This is disconcerting for some owners because usually the engine is very quiet and you hardly ever hear the engine.
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Oh, it's just a petrol car with a range extender. They shouldn't be allowed to call these electric cars at all.
 
jimbob said:
I'm considering a plug in hybrid for the range reason
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Can you charge at home? If so go for a full electric, yeah you'll have to factor in a stop of around 20 minutes for your occasional long journey, but I do that anyway to stretch my legs and the dog's.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Not quite. It was actually invented in 1997 by a journalist talking about GM's EV1. Toyota played on it in 2010 to promote their hybrids, but to be fair the only commercial EV available at that time (the Nissan Leaf) did have poor range.

I used to only put ~110 km of petrol in my gas car, so I thought range anxiety wouldn't be an issue for me. When I got my Leaf I measured the range at 95 km, which is further than I ever want to go. But the fear of running out combined with a lying 'guessometer' that overestimated range by 50% meant I was constantly looking at the display to check that it had enough. As the car aged the range reduced more and the range indicator got less reliable.

I need to do another test to find out how much range I actually have now. Would like to use Leafspy to check the battery health etc., but I've bought 3 different OBD adapters so far and none of them worked.
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That's like the dark ages now though. My MG4's guessometer is very reliable (of course I run a calibration charge regularly) and there are DC chargers all over the place.
 
jimbob said:
Yes it's an issue for me.

Most of the time it would be fine but also do 500 or 1000km trips several times a year.
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Same here. For daily use I barely glance at the indicator but next week I’ll be doing Geneva to London and back so you can bet I’ll be doing mental calculations the whole time.
 
Rolfe said:
That's like the dark ages now though. My MG4's guessometer is very reliable (of course I run a calibration charge regularly) and there are DC chargers all over the place.
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The GOM om my EV6 is very reliable, except for when I tow a trailer. Then for the first 20-30 minutes of the trip it is very pessimistic, and it feels like I will have to stop and charge multiple times. But after some driving it understands the actual consumption profile and it's back to being accurate.

I've recommended https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ before in this thread, and I still use that for all my planning of longer trips. The default profile for the car model is quite good, but it's possible to tune it based on personal driving profiles. I'm usually withing a couple of % on each charging stop when driving long distances (like Stockholm -> Paris).
 
Rolfe said:
Oh, it's just a petrol car with a range extender. They shouldn't be allowed to call these electric cars at all.
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They don't, they call them hybrids, which is a very apt and descriptive term as it has both a petrol motor and an electric motor and they can both power the car. And like I say for my short trips it is pure electric, it even makes that funny "I'm reversing" sound when in electric mode, I'll be off to the park in the car with the dog in 30 minutes and both trips will be 100% electric motor. I think I'm getting better than the reviewers did because I have regenerative braking set to its max, and it's almost one pedal driving, and I love that, the drive is so smooth. It's why I know 100% that my next car will be electric even if I can't plug it in at home.
 
malbui said:
Same here. For daily use I barely glance at the indicator but next week I’ll be doing Geneva to London and back so you can bet I’ll be doing mental calculations the whole time.
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I don't see why the calculations are necessary, except of course when conditions change (such as hitching on a trailer) and you have to second-guess the GoM till it catches up. Just drive till you see your charge getting lowish then go to a charging station. I mean, Geneva to London is most definitely not the wilds of nowhere.
 
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