Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[Darat]

As I said it is the already better off that can reap the benefit of cheap charging at home - outside of London the cramped streets that are the country's legacy housing that is more than often the cheapest housing in an area, it means the poor can't benefit from cheap charging or reduced costs associated with an electric car.

 

[Rolfe]

The cost of public charging compared to home charging is a real issue, and as you say, it's the less well off who are disadvantaged. I don't know what to do about that. But it is still possible in very many cases for someone in a terraced house or a flat to run an EV and benefit from the other reduced costs. At worst, they're paying a similar price for their electricity per mile as they would for petrol.

 

[Dabop]

These are springing up in streets in the older parts of Sydney as an example of local and state governments together doing the right thing

Like many older parts of the UK, these old terrace houses have no offstreet parking at all usually, but EV takeup is still going strong in them...
Most current EVs can need only charging once or twice a week at a fast charger for less than 20 minutes (although the new BYD 'Flash' Mega chargers are sub 6 minutes to do 300-400km worth of charge) but these street chargers are only 7kw 'slow' chargers, and they are all 'EV only' parking- with fines for those 'ICEing' them... BIG fines lol


Many councils have taken advantage in such areas to install 'street side charging'- usually starting with areas where the residents apply to the council- they install them 'as needed ' atm, but it soon may be done as a 'every light pole gets a slow charger' rollout throughout that council area (Paddington and Annandale are both looking at doing so)
This one below is a 'dual outlet' charger, so can do two at once, if this becomes insufficient there are 'bollard' style ones that could be spaced between lightpoles with minimal disruption or cost to install them (literally slice a slit in the concrete and bury an armoured cable in with a quickdry cement refilling afterwards from the nearest lightpole...)

Of course its only the older cities that have this issue here, blocks of flats etc have been required by law here to provide sufficient off street parking to cover all residents since the 1970's, and most of those are already installing EV charger in them as required (assuming they don't preemptively install them- flats that have chargers get better rents and higher occupancy rates than those without, especially in high demand places like the cities)- indeed most real estate agents list EV chargers in their listings these days...


Seems it not THAT bloody hard to do lol

 

[Darat]

The cost of public charging compared to home charging is a real issue, and as you say, it's the less well off who are disadvantaged. I don't know what to do about that. But it is still possible in very many cases for someone in a terraced house or a flat to run an EV and benefit from the other reduced costs. At worst, they're paying a similar price for their electricity per mile as they would for petrol.

Currently it seems it is a case of leaving it to the "market" to fix. Leaving it to the market "to fix" won't work, it needs a national infrastructure roll out, all streets need to have charging points, it is certainly in our wit to be able to sort out which household to charge for the electricity no matter which you are plugged into. Until then usage will be limited to those better off folk.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, it needs government action.

 

[Darat]

...snip...
Seems it not THAT bloody hard to do lol

There is nothing inherently unsolveable for the UK but is about having the political will to make it happen.

Also sadly in the UK historically there have never been legally mandate parking places to number of flats or even houses, some local authorities do impose some restrictions but usually the developers manage to get away with reducing the number! But at least things are changing there are some regulations now about providing charging points. If you are a nerd have a look here: https://www.new-builds.co.uk/blog/parking-transport-new-build-developments On that site they claim that the average parking spaces in new builds are: 1.1–1.5!

 

[Dabop]

Well the Ausgrid ones here cost barely anything to charge at- they ARE a slow charger after all lol (it varies depending on time of day for EVX/Ausgrid, but overnight charging is 35c an hour (which is actually quite cheap- the offpeak rate for homes here from the same supplier (Ausgrid) is only 30c a kWh (A Tesla charger for example costs 55cper kwh here, so you are less than 2/3 the price compared to a fast charger...)
So the overall charging cost is only marginally higher than home charging, far cheaper than fast charging, and a hell of a lot cheaper than petrol or diesel!!!!

Re your link- sounds like the local governments there has been particularly lax re newbuilds (corruption??? developer bribes perhaps???)
Guess (as usual) the taxpayers will be left to clean up the problems...
:-(

 

[acbytesla]

Here's the thing that a lot of things that people are oblivious to.

Yes we should increase charging infrastructure so the poor can benefit from EVs as well. But it benefits the poor even if they still rely on petrol for transportation. Because increasing the number of people using solar and using EVs reduces demand pressure on fossil fuels.

 

[Dabop]

To a certain extent that's true, but oil is so dependant on many external factors on its price (coughs the current war for example in Iran) and its increasing scarcity (many fields are already dependent on fracking and the like to get production levels up to where they were previously unneeded- which adds to the production cost over what it was previously) with increasing costs- don't expect a 40% demand drop to equate to a 40% price drop...
(and that's ignoring the tendencies of big companies to screw over the consumers pricewise- how many times have you seen a major drop in crude prices seeing pump prices barely move- and oil companies announcing record profits hmmmm????)

It's not as if EVs are a 'luxury' item any more (well in most countries)- your basic entry level 'commuter cars' for example here in Australia start at around $24k-$27k Au, a good second hand car (ie one with a good few years of life left in it, although with increasing repair costs) costs about half that... and their ICE equivalents are actually slightly more expensive now!!!
So well within the 'acceptable price bracket' of even those on a lower wage (with the minimum wage here being $26.44 an hour/$1004.90 a week, paying off the base models like the Geely EX2 at $27k or the Atto 1 at $24k is under 27 weeks/6 months of wages required for full payment (obviously that's not achievable as you can't spend 100% of your wages on car payments, but its a good metric for 'affordability'- the last time it was that low was back in the 1970's here lol
For example the minimum wage in 1970 was $51.35 a week, and the cheapest new car was $1278 for a Fiat- meaning it took 24.8 weeks worth of minimum wage to pay off...

And the safety and driver assist features are worlds apart- both of those 'base' models come in Australia with 'driver assist' ie level 2 'self driving' ie lane assist, distance maintaining and auto braking in an emergency as well as multiple airbags and 'passenger protection cell' inbuilt... The Fiat had.... um seatbelts... (and precious little else either in terms of 'creature comforts' lol- no A/C. no electric windows- hell even a AM only radio wasn't an optional extra from the factory!!!!

 

[acbytesla]

To a certain extent that's true, but oil is so dependant on many external factors on its price (coughs the current war for example in Iran) and its increasing scarcity (many fields are already dependent on fracking and the like to get production levels up to where they were previously unneeded- which adds to the production cost over what it was previously) with increasing costs- don't expect a 40% demand drop to equate to a 40% price drop...
(and that's ignoring the tendencies of big companies to screw over the consumers pricewise- how many times have you seen a major drop in crude prices seeing pump prices barely move- and oil companies announcing record profits hmmmm????)

It's not as if EVs are a 'luxury' item any more (well in most countries)- your basic entry level 'commuter cars' for example here in Australia start at around $24k-$27k Au, a good second hand car (ie one with a good few years of life left in it, although with increasing repair costs) costs about half that... and their ICE equivalents are actually slightly more expensive now!!!
So well within the 'acceptable price bracket' of even those on a lower wage (with the minimum wage here being $26.44 an hour/$1004.90 a week, paying off the base models like the Geely EX2 at $27k or the Atto 1 at $24k is under 27 weeks/6 months of wages required for full payment (obviously that's not achievable as you can't spend 100% of your wages on car payments, but its a good metric for 'affordability'- the last time it was that low was back in the 1970's here lol
For example the minimum wage in 1970 was $51.35 a week, and the cheapest new car was $1278 for a Fiat- meaning it took 24.8 weeks worth of minimum wage to pay off...

And the safety and driver assist features are worlds apart- both of those 'base' models come in Australia with 'driver assist' ie level 2 'self driving' ie lane assist, distance maintaining and auto braking in an emergency as well as multiple airbags and 'passenger protection cell' inbuilt... The Fiat had.... um seatbelts... (and precious little else either in terms of 'creature comforts' lol- no A/C. no electric windows- hell even a AM only radio wasn't an optional extra from the factory!!!!

I agree that EVs are becoming more affordable with the exception of the US. But, I stand by my point. The number one reason that prices rise is supply and demand. The more EVs are renewables are added, the less demand there is, the greater the downward pressure on prices.

 

[Ranb]

I saw the Slate EV pickup in an ad and thought it might be good for me. But it can only be had with a short bed. I need one that has a 6.5 foot bed minimum.