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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

The Don said:
The next car I buy will almost certainly be an EV but I intend to run my current whip, a 2016 Skoda Oktavia, into the ground before I buy one. Ideally I'll get another 5-10 years out of it and by then we may not even need two cars.

My obsession with minimising our electricity consumption has however clouded my judgement when it comes to using Mrs Don's EV. In the summer we can charge it for free given halfway decent weather but it's a different matter in a Welsh winter. In order to limit our electricity purchases on dark and cloudy days I've been using the Skoda instead.

The stupid thing is that we now have a tariff where we get (for the UK) cheap electricity for 4 hours overnight (9p/kWh vs 28p), the kicker being that we pay a premium (30p/kWh) for the other 20 hours. Even at the expensive rate it costs less than 8p/mile to fuel the EV (as opposed to around 15p/mile). It's under 3p/mile at the cheap rate and - due to our ridiculous electricity supply arrangement at Don Towers - we can get around 60 miles of range into the car during cheap hours.
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According to my utility, average electric rates in the US are just a bit over $0.16/kwh and my local rates are $0.1025 per kWh. But we are currently blessed with a lot of renewables in Texas, despite our government trying to stop further development.

I haven’t looked into buy back rates yet at this location but nearby they said buy backs would be at wholesale market rates, so whatever they were paying for electricity on the open market, which I think is close to $0.06 per kWh.
 
Our EV charger is finally connected and working today!

Today's electricity price is 17.58p / kWh.
 
I don't recall if I mentioned that I get a $10 credit on my electric bill for charging at night. I don't drive much anymore so I probably don't use more than $15 or $20 of electricity a month charging my car. So the credit covers about half what I spend on "gas."
 
jadebox said:
I don't recall if I mentioned that I get a $10 credit on my electric bill for charging at night. I don't drive much anymore so I probably don't use more than $15 or $20 of electricity a month charging my car. So the credit covers about half what I spend on "gas."
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What is the reason behind that?

Here in Norway, we are encouraged to charge at night, as there is less demand for electricity in those hours. It's a lot cheaper too.
 
Ryokan said:
What is the reason behind that?
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I think aside from subsidizing off peak use in order to save on generation, there may be an issue in some places of actual power line capacity, and anything that can even out the load on the infrastructure itself will be cheaper than beefing up the lines.

BAck in Connecticut, I had, for a while, a power company owned water heater, with an off peak meter. As I recall, the bottom element ran through it. and the rate was a little lower.

Here in Vermont capacity is an issue, although we have no double or off peak metering. But the power company subsidizes energy saving and alternate energy because it is cheaper than upgrading the infrastructure. Our power company does little if any generating these days, and almost all our energy comes from Hydro Quebec. The power company's job is basically to maintain the grid.
 
Ryokan said:
What is the reason behind that?

Here in Norway, we are encouraged to charge at night, as there is less demand for electricity in those hours. It's a lot cheaper too.
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Exactly what you said. The credit is to encourage me to charge at night when demand for electricity is lower.
 
The Don said:
Gosh, so are we and we're paying 30p between 0430 and 0030 and 9p off peak. Must investigate.
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We're on the tracker rate, which has the potential to be more expensive if supply is limited again in future for whatever reason; my other half has been doing the sums, and it's been cheaper than what we were paying on the rate that was fixed before the prices rocketed due to Russia, etc. From our usage pattern, it will be cheaper to continue rather than switch to one of the EV tariffs (which we could now do, as the EV charger is now working), but we'll be monitoring that.
 
I've just checked my electricity contract and it's fixed until November at 27.29p/kWh (which is double what I paid the previous year).

However the car is unlikely to arrive before September, so I have time to plan ahead and switch tariffs/suppliers at renewal. I don't do much mileage (my current car was leased in July 2019 and I'm still at under 16,500 miles) so I'll have to look at how the numbers stack up.
 
zooterkin said:
We're on the tracker rate, which has the potential to be more expensive if supply is limited again in future for whatever reason; my other half has been doing the sums, and it's been cheaper than what we were paying on the rate that was fixed before the prices rocketed due to Russia, etc. From our usage pattern, it will be cheaper to continue rather than switch to one of the EV tariffs (which we could now do, as the EV charger is now working), but we'll be monitoring that.
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That makes sense :thumbsup: :)

With our newly installed battery, and scheduling car charging, battery charging and other high usage activities for when we get electricity at 9p/kWh, 90% or so of our electricity is purchased at the cheap rate.

We still seem to have to buy around 1 kWh per day at the higher rate because:

  • The inverter will not cut in when demand is low (under 100 watts)
  • It takes up to a minute for the inverter to ramp up to 3kW when demand changes quickly
  • Very occasionally demand exceeds the inverter's 3kW capacity
  • We seem to have "rounding" of +/- 50 watts
 
I was checking out Genesis Energy in New Zealand, who have a plan with half price EV charging between 9pm and 7am, when I found out they have an addon called 'EVerywhere' in which you pay the same rates at ChargeNet fast chargers as you do at home! A great idea, and one in the eye for all those naysayers who argue that EVs cost more to run than gas cars (if you only charge at expensive fast chargers rather than at home).

Now all we need is charging stations at parking spaces outside apartment buildings and all their objections will be answered. These street 'chargers' could be cheap because they actually only need to be mains power sockets, since apartment dwellers can charge overnight at a slow rate. I can also see these being put at parking spaces in town - finally a good justification for parking fees! They should put them everywhere people park their cars - at supermarkets, restaurants, work parking spaces etc. Maybe you only get a few kWh during the time you are parked there, but it all helps. Solar roofs should be installed to help run them during the day as well as supplying the grid.

The final part of the equation is vehicle to grid. With this electricity suppliers can call on idle cars to supply power during dips in renewable output, forming a distributed battery system. Unplanned power outages could be markedly reduced because an overload or generator failure on one part of the grid won't affect the rest.

Genesis Energy's EVerywhere plan is a good start to our electric future. If they could drop their natural gas sales and go fully renewable it would be even better. This might happen quite soon, because climate activist Mike Smith is suing them for being one of 'seven big polluters' in New Zealand.

In other news, the government has backed down over road user charges for PHEVs (dropping the rate from NZ$0.053 / km to $0.038 / km), but is still insisting on $0.078 / km for full EVs. The RUC on EVs starts next month. This makes getting on a cheaper electricity plan even more important if you drive long distances.
 
8enotto said:
BYD ( of spotty QC according to the internet) is negotiating building three factories in Mexico as the US car industry is preemptively blocking them.

They don't want cheap Chinese electric cars flooding the market before they can manage to figure out how to sell their own.
And I understand some safety concerns over fires too but it screams of just keeping BYD out because they can't figure it out and don't want to hustle to do so.
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Here is my problem...

American (as well as manufacturers like Hyundai) abandoned the small car market years ago. (They have been pushing trucks/SUVs/crossovers/etc., and even their 'smaller' vehicles have been getting bigger over time). Their claim was a combination of "nobody is buying small vehicles/bigger & luxury vehicles are more profitable".

They have abandoned a segment of the market (that of compact/smaller/basic cars), and are doing everything they can to make sure nobody tries to restart that segment. And politicians are letting them get away with it.

I would love to see someone in the Biden administration say "No tariffs on BYD cars manufactured in North America. If its true that nobody wants small cars" then GM/Ford/etc. should have no problems."
 
The small cars are here in the UK and are generally well reviewed. South Korean small cars are planned for 2026, I believe, but I'm losing touch with the whole EV thing.
 
The lease on the e-niro is up next year and I'm torn between extending, it's a really good car, or going for something different.


But not too different, as we're going to the Nottingham launch event of the ev3 on Monday
 
Trebuchet said:
I keep getting YouTube ads for an electric motorcycle from Bombardier. Not sure i see the point.
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You may think ads for something you don't want are pointless, but they work.

Or perhaps you think electric motorcycles themselves are pointless? I have no interest in getting a motorcycle of any kind myself, but I was curious to know why a biker might want to go electric:-

Electric vs Gas Motorcycle: the 9 advantages of going electric
1. Instant torque and power... no matter what a gas motorcycle’s cc is, it simply can’t match the instant torque provided by an electric engine. For example, all our Damon HyperSports go from 0-60 mph in less than 2.7 seconds. Not only is this very fun, but having instant torque and power can make all the difference when needing to get out of a sticky situation quickly or moving out of the way to prevent getting hit.

2. Much less maintenance... ongoing motorcycle maintenance takes away from the most enjoyable part of owning a motorcycle: riding.

3. Save you money... electric motorcycle tax credit... charging an electric motorcycle is nearly 3 times cheaper... less maintenance saves you money.

4. Manufacturers do things differently... monocoque-constructed powertrain... can be adapted for any model, regardless of range, horsepower, or top speed.

5. more comfortable... EV motorcycles don’t vibrate. This allows you to ride in peace.

6. Less noise pollution... allow you to experience the sounds of your surroundings and generally lead to a happier and more peaceful riding experience.

7. More convenient... instead of having to make an early morning trip to the gas station when your bike is in the red zone, electric motorcycles allow you to simply plug in and charge up from the comfort of your own home.

8. Better for the Planet... in order to prevent worldwide temperatures from increasing by 1.5° C by 2100, we need to cut our CO2 emissions by 45% by 2030 and hit a net zero by 2050. ICE motorcycles and cars don’t help us meet this goal or reduce worldwide pollution.

9. Safer... Electric motorcycle companies are pushing the envelope when it comes to motorcycle safety... using motorcycle AI and big data to build bikes that are in tune with your surroundings and potential hazards.
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There's one item on that list which you might think is 'pointless' - being 'better for the planet'. Gas motorcycles already get much better fuel economy than cars, so the further reduction from going electric might not seem worth it - now. But eventually, as other things get cleaner, it will become significant.

The other point is that many people (like me) who have been put off riding motocycles due to the noise, vibration, and safety risks, might be more receptive to electric bikes. If more people rode motorcycles instead of driving gas cars it would reduce GHG emissions a lot. In some countries like India and China, more people ride motorcycles than have cars. Their huge populations mean that going electric would make a big difference there too.
 
Despite global EV slowdown, China's car industry refuses to put on handbrake

Global demand for electric vehicles (EVs) has cooled in recent months after a dramatic rise over the last decade, leading several major car manufacturers to scale back electrification plans.

Despite a slowing domestic economy, China is steaming ahead with its own transition to EVs.

And while legacy Western automakers seem to have hit a speed bump in the Chinese market, local car firms are challenging the traditional motoring giants both at home and abroad...
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