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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

Rolfe said:
The new V4 units seem pretty reliable, and even the V3 ones have always performed for me. That site at Perth is the only one I've come across where there wasn't something pretty close by and I had to get a drive-through McDonald's before going to the charger. Many of them are beside nice hotels where you can get a good coffee or a snack.

Nothing is changing at x kw per hour, by the way. That makes no sense.

Here, Tesla chargers are about the cheapest there are, and even cheaper if you buy a subscription (or drive a Tesla). But even the more expensive ones which are a complete rip-off only work out about the same as petrol. I think you guys have abnormally low petrol prices.

If that Porsche was a Taycan it must have had the extra feature to allow it to charge normally at Tesla chargers fitted from new. Apparently if that isn't specified the best you will get out of a Tesla charger is 50 kw, and it can't be fitted later!
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It was a Taycan but I don't think it used a Tesla charger. I don't think any of the non-Tesla vehicles used a Tesla charger. They almost always used an EV-America charger.

There are no V4 chargers in the US. Tesla just announced the V4 chargers to be rolled out in 2025 . In the US, the Tesla V3 chargers are limited to 250KW. However, the EV America chargers have a top end of 350KW.

As for charging prices, I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a profit center. They will charge what the market will bear. There isn't a lot of competition. I couldn't tell you what Tesla was charging because I don't remember any display screens on their chargers. Whereas the EV-America chargers had a display screen. Prices in Washington State were mostly in the 35 cents per. But East of that, in Montana, Wyoming , South Dakota etc it was almost double that.
 
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Rolfe said:
Well, since my car's top charging speed is 88 kw, I'm not that fussy!
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Make sense. I'm exploring my options. I'm making the move entirely on cost/price and utility. I'm not looking for fancy. The technology is changing all the time and new vehicles are constantly offering new features. Some are irrelevant to me and I'm not interested in buying something with marginal value. I don't want to get locked into older technologies that might limit the value of such an expensive purchase. For example some vehicles might be able to charge at 22KW AC at home. But that is only available if you have 3 phase power. Which for the moment, is too costly for me to to go to at the moment. But I expect more reasonably priced 3 phase inverters to become available in time. My problem as always is that I have a champagne appetite and a beer budget. So who knows? But it will be a cool project if I do.
 
Due to the distance between house and garage/workshop and our unwillingness to dig up our newly landscaped garden to lay a new, higher capacity power cable, our maximum charge speed is 4kw/h instead of the 7kw/h our charger is capable of.

We are also cheap so are only willing to charge our car on cheap overnight rates which run from 0030 to 0430.

Despite this, we very rarely have to charge the car outside these hours because one night's charge delivers 60-70 miles of range and that's plenty for our typical use.
 
The Don said:
Due to the distance between house and garage/workshop and our unwillingness to dig up our newly landscaped garden to lay a new, higher capacity power cable, our maximum charge speed is 4kw/h instead of the 7kw/h our charger is capable of.

We are also cheap so are only willing to charge our car on cheap overnight rates which run from 0030 to 0430.

Despite this, we very rarely have to charge the car outside these hours because one night's charge delivers 60-70 miles of range and that's plenty for our typical use.
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It's all about what works for you. The cost of the cars themselves is what holds me back.
 
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I just saw a video extolling the virtues of getting a fast-charging car to "future-proof" your EV. There is probably quite a lot to be said for this, but at some point you move from stopping long enough for a coffee and a break, to it not being worth your while leaving the car. Depends on your circumstances.

I don't know what the market is like in the USA, but here there are a lot of really tempting low-mileage used EVs available at good prices. Might be worth decding what your champagne appetite fancies then looking to see if any deals are available.

Before I got my car several people said to me, wait, because of all the new improvements coming in EV capability. Finally I asked what I was waiting for, and was told nothing in particular, it's just a whole lot of incremental improvements. So when my Golf was written off I decided just to get what was available that week, that fitted my requirements and that I could afford. Hello Caliban, the MG4 SE SR. I was saved a lot of vacillating because at that time the car was a stand-out winner, and it's still winning comparison tests two years later. Lucky me. Not available in the USA.

No matter when you jump there's a good chance the grass will be greener in a year, but think of the year's fun you've had from the car!
 
Rolfe said:
I just saw a video extolling the virtues of getting a fast-charging car to "future-proof" your EV. There is probably quite a lot to be said for this, but at some point you move from stopping long enough for a coffee and a break, to it not being worth your while leaving the car. Depends on your circumstances.

I don't know what the market is like in the USA, but here there are a lot of really tempting low-mileage used EVs available at good prices. Might be worth decding what your champagne appetite fancies then looking to see if any deals are available.

Before I got my car several people said to me, wait, because of all the new improvements coming in EV capability. Finally I asked what I was waiting for, and was told nothing in particular, it's just a whole lot of incremental improvements. So when my Golf was written off I decided just to get what was available that week, that fitted my requirements and that I could afford. Hello Caliban, the MG4 SE SR. I was saved a lot of vacillating because at that time the car was a stand-out winner, and it's still winning comparison tests two years later. Lucky me. Not available in the USA.

No matter when you jump there's a good chance the grass will be greener in a year, but think of the year's fun you've had from the car!
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Exactly! My thought is that EV prices are going to come down more in the next two years. But I could be wrong. I worked in the computer market and next year's product was always going to be cheaper. So you have to jump in at some point. The problem with buying a used EV is the prices don't seem to make them that much cheaper than a new car with the government incentives. And none of the Chinese vehicles are selling in the US. Not the MG, BYD, NIO, Xpeng, Zeek, Wuling, Geely, Eve Energy Co Ltd, Leapmotor, LeSEE, Levdeo, Li Auto, Lichi, Lifan or Luxgen.

Rumors are that some are coming. But right now I'm leaning towards the Tesla Model 3. But I despise Musk so much, I have trouble sending my money his way.
 
acbytesla said:
Exactly! My thought is that EV prices are going to come down more in the next two years. But I could be wrong. I worked in the computer market and next year's product was always going to be cheaper. So you have to jump in at some point. The problem with buying a used EV is the prices don't seem to make them that much cheaper than a new car with the government incentives. And none of the Chinese vehicles are selling in the US. Not the MG, BYD, NIO, Xpeng, Zeek, Wuling, Geely, Eve Energy Co Ltd, Leapmotor, LeSEE, Levdeo, Li Auto, Lichi, Lifan or Luxgen.

Rumors are that some are coming. But right now I'm leaning towards the Tesla Model 3. But I despise Musk so much, I have trouble sending my money his way.
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A big factor in whether EV prices will fall is the level of tariff imposed on Chinese or Indian manufactured EVs (and how high local safety and manufacturing standards are). Of course there are now a lot of used EVs on the market. I've only ever bought one brand new car (Mrs Don has bought three) and unless there are exceptional circumstances, I wouldn't do so again due to the costs and hassle involved. I'd rather someone else took the hit for the initial depreciation and debugging any small build issues.

There are plenty of used Tesla 3s here in the UK with less than 40,000 miles and under 3 years old for less than £20,000. At that price I'd consider getting one to replace my Skoda Oktavia when the time comes. The added bonus is that buying used doesn't send money (directly) to Musk.
 
My issue with the Model 3 is that I need a hatchback. But if you don't, it looks like a good choice.
 
The Don said:
A big factor in whether EV prices will fall is the level of tariff imposed on Chinese or Indian manufactured EVs (and how high local safety and manufacturing standards are). Of course there are now a lot of used EVs on the market. I've only ever bought one brand new car (Mrs Don has bought three) and unless there are exceptional circumstances, I wouldn't do so again due to the costs and hassle involved. I'd rather someone else took the hit for the initial depreciation and debugging any small build issues.

There are plenty of used Tesla 3s here in the UK with less than 40,000 miles and under 3 years old for less than £20,000. At that price I'd consider getting one to replace my Skoda Oktavia when the time comes. The added bonus is that buying used doesn't send money (directly) to Musk.
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Yes tarriffs will greatly affect prices. But more important is supply and demand or more important the perception of supply and demand. Car sales are down. Companies will have to lower prices in one way or another. Cost of batteries keep dropping.which is the most expensive component in an EV. Plus, I haven't built new solar ground mounts and an out building for the electronics.
 
Rolfe said:
My issue with the Model 3 is that I need a hatchback. But if you don't, it looks like a good choice.
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I'd actually prefer a van. But they seem to be much less efficient, much more expensive and have less range.
 
The Don said:
The same is true for ICE powered vans when compared to other ICE vehicles.
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Very true. But I'm reading about 100 to 150 mile ranges for the vans as opposed to say 250 to 350 mile ranges for the average EV. Plus, the prices on the vans are substantially more. Everything is a trade off. What I want is an EV van like a Sprinter or a Transit. I really like the VW Buzz, but the price on all three is too much in my book.
 
I bought mine (plug-in hybrid that is 95% used as a pure EV) when it was one year old, ex lease.

I strongly recommend this method for getting into the market.

The car was 40% cheaper than the new model, and was pristine, barring two tiny dings on the bodywork. (stone impacts would be my guess)
 
Norway on track to be first to go all-electric

Norway is the world leader when it comes to the take up of electric cars, which last year accounted for nine out of 10 new vehicles sold in the country. Can other nations learn from it?

www.bbc.co.uk

Norway on track to be first to go all-electric

Nine in 10 new cars in the country are now battery-powered, and it aims to hit 100% later this year.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
I suspect the lesson from Norway is that early adoption was easier if you were wealthy and didn't generally drive long distances.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I suspect the lesson from Norway is that early adoption was easier if you were wealthy and didn't generally drive long distances.
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I don't know how much of an advantage it was, but they possibly had some infrastructure in place as it's common for car parks to have electric outlets where you plug your (ICE) car in to warm up the engine in cold weather.
 
zooterkin said:
I don't know how much of an advantage it was, but they possibly had some infrastructure in place as it's common for car parks to have electric outlets where you plug your (ICE) car in to warm up the engine in cold weather.
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I lived in Wisconsin for a few years. Brutal winter. 10 to 20 degrees below zero Fahrenheit were not uncommon. More than a few parking lots had outlets that allowed employees and customers to plug your engine block heater into so your engine didn’t freeze.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I suspect the lesson from Norway is that early adoption was easier if you were wealthy and didn't generally drive long distances.
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Define 'long distances'.

About Travelling in Norway
The mainland of Norway covers approximately 385,000 Km2 (150,000 square miles) and the population is 5.3 million. The distance from north to south is 1,100 miles (1,750 km), but the rugged coastline measures more than twice the distance around the equator.
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Bjørn Nyland has subjected a large number of EV models to his '1,000km challenge', where he drives at night in temperatures as low as -36°C. Tesla Model 3 performance did it in 10 hours 9 minutes. This was 5 years ago.


Comment: "I drove from outside Oslo to Hamburg (1000km) in a diesel Skoda Octavia and it took me 11 hours, so this is interesting."
 
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