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Elections in Spain

rikzilla:
:rolleyes: "whatever"
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A characteristically articulate reply.
That's "trigger-happy" Mr. Euro-trash. If you are going to make pissy remarks, you might as well at least try and get the terminology correct.
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Unneccesary. It would be pearls before swine.
In the beginning it was called the post war occupation of Germany, later it was referred to as "The Cold War". Every German who grew up during that period was taught to feel national shame for their acceptance of Hitler. I've known many German civilians and soldiers....most were pacifists...even the soldiers. (not that that's a bad thing, given their history)
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The Cold War was a project for pacification of the Germans by the Allies? Sorry, could you link me to your favorite woo-woo site which claims this?
No. Most educated humans have heard of the Cold War. Why I myself have first hand knowlege of it! I was stationed in Frankfurt-Hoechst from 1978 to 81. No one told me it was a secret.
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See above.
Oh? So I guess you agree with ZG that the Spanish "ridded themselves" of Franco?? That they merely used the effective weapon of "old age" against him? :roll: What a laugh! And why would I rave about Hitler? The allies took out Hitler, not the German people!
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Are you saying that my statement was untrue?
The last time a European country actually did rid itself of an "autocratic ruler" was the French revolution. And the cure (the terror) was as bad as the disease (the monarchy).
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Sorry, better get your University tuition refunded. Most countries in Europe achieved democracy after the French Revolution.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...do list the many accomplishments of the Danes in throwing off tyranny at home and worldwide. we're ready to believe you.
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I just did correct you. It takes very little effort afterall.

In regard to the Danes, we became a Constitutional Democracy in 1849.
 
Fendetestas said:
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't get rid of tyrants or that we are conformists. I was just trying to say that in Europe we can also fight for our freedom and we have done so in several occasions.
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Sure, no doubt about it. That's pretty much been what's been going on in European History since forever, isn't it? At least since the Romans, and probably a lot before.

I come to realize at this point that I really don't know what this argument is about, even if it exists. I mean, maybe one or two people have called Spain AQ-whipped, but it doesn't seem like enough of a barrage to me to get excited about. On the other hand, it depends on whose ox is getting gored, doesn't it? I was quite sensitive to comments from across the pond in the couple of weeks after 9/11 about how it was the chickens coming home to roost, etc.

By the way, I agree with your translation of Cleopatra's post.
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I am gratified. It's been a long time since I studied this stuff.
 
epepke said:

I come to realize at this point that I really don't know what this argument is about, even if it exists. I mean, maybe one or two people have called Spain AQ-whipped, but it doesn't seem like enough of a barrage to me to get excited about.
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I wasn't excited at all, believe me. Actually I don't know what it was about either.

About the elections, which is the real topic of the thread, a lot of celebrities have expressed their satisfaction for the defeat of the PP, (there was a lot of opposition to them amongst actors for example, particularly about the war) Most of them are unknown outside Spain, but I think you know Pedro Almódovar, so this is what he had to say:

-"This Sunday we have returned to Democracy, we are coming back to something we had left eight years ago [when the PP got elected]. The withholding and manipulation of information they had got us used to, that darkness, it's no Democracy. Despite the very high price, I'm very happy to see a solidary and free country again, because they had taken it from us. We can be ourselves again now."

-"(...)I couldn't believe the manipulation. That the PP, led by Aznar, could be capable of assisting to the demonstration last Friday and keep on with the pantomime was a mockery to the pain of the Spanish people (...)"

-"(...)We must understand something terryfying. The PP almost caused a coup d'êtat last Saturday at midnight (...)It's been the Spanish people that came to he streets to demand information and fortunately that couldn't be stopped"

To be fair with the other side, here I present you some declarations of Silvio Berlusconi, supporting the ETA hypothesis:

-"A operation like this must have been planned by very sofisticated minds, that knew very well the situation in Spain. That's by I don't believe something of this kind could have been planned and carried out just why four Bedouins from Al Qaeda"

He supported Aznar and criticized Zapatero. Berlusconi came to Madrid to the huge demonstration last Friday.
 
rikzilla said:


...a solution so perfectly effective that a German can in 2004 look at the natural death of Generalissimo Francisco Franco and see it as the action of the brave Spanish people "ridding themselves" of a tyrant!
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That's a nice try to misrepresent my point. The Spaniards indeed didn't kill the guy but they surely and actively opposed his regime as you can read e.g. here

Opposition to the regime mounted on all sides in 1974 and 1975. Labor strikes, in which even actors participated, spread across the country. Universities were in a state of turmoil, as the popular clamor for democracy grew more strident. Terrorist activity reached such a level that the government placed the Basque region under martial law in April 1975. By the time of Franco's death on November 20, 1975, Spain was in a chronic state of crisis.
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but you as someone who actually did a research paper in history (was it published somewhere?) certainly already know that.

rikzilla said:

Hardly any of your post was worth my time to reply to. You are a German pacifist...the neutered "ubermenschen" personified. I did a research paper in university on the fall of the Berlin wall as a current event. I remember all the concerns voiced by many Europeans that Germany would be dangerous as a reunited state. Thankfully they need not have worried...the allies did a great 50 year long pacification project...maybe too good of a job actually!
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At first I must tell you rik, if you resort to pathetic tactics like calling someone's spelling as you did ...
Originally posted by rikzilla in response to DD
That's "trigger-happy" Mr. Euro-trash. If you are going to make pissy remarks, you might as well at least try and get the terminology correct.
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... you should refrain from using German, because your witty attempt to insult me should be neutered "Übermensch" :p


Anyway,

I take your pompous refusal to address my points combined with smart-assed insults as your self-application for your own Baghdad Bob award.

You earn it.

Congratulations,

Zee
 
hey!...we don't even have a party for people who don't want the Iraq war. What does that say about our democracy?

That most voters are smarter than you?
 
Had to put this somewhere. This seemed the place.
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ZeeGerman said:


would be funny if the topic wasn't so dead serious...

Zee
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Serious? Nah, our Muslim buddies are all just fooling around. How are you personally doing with arabic & your conversion to Islam? How are your family & friends in those regards?

"Live & let live" has never historically been a successful strategy to counter organized zealotry.
 
Tricky said:
Had to put this somewhere. This seemed the place.
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Bwah-hah-ha! Johnny Howard committed more troops than Spain and he still can't get recognised as contributing to the war effort. Poor shmuck can't take a trick this year.
 
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