Election day in Denmark

[Darat]

...snip...

Are you saying that Labour isn't by definition Socialist?

I would say that they are no longer a socialist party in the sense that they no longer hold as a principle "the common ownership of the means of production". (This was removed from the party constitution a few years ago.)

Are they still a "socialist" party rather depend on what you think a socialist party should stand for. Labour support totally the principle of the NHS (free at the point of delivery) but no longer believe it has to run directly by the state, they support the principle of free education but only to secondary level, they believe in welfare system, but only to those who can’t work and so on. They support private industry providing (via tax payer’s money) what were traditionally “public services”.

By way of stated principles and stated policies I can no longer distinguish between the three major UK political parties, Labour, The Liberals, Conservatives!

 

[Kerberos]

But the result is clear. The Liberal-Conservative government will continue.

Cool!

Ah, yes, four more years with most important legislation passed with the help of the Danish Peoples Party and an economic policy firmly grounded in consistenly doing exactly the opposite of what every economist in the country recomends and the firm insistence that 60.000 jobs are going to fall out of the sky.

[psychic prediction] The governement is going to scrab the 2010 plan invent a 2015 plan which is going to assume even more fictional jobs then point out how much money we have with all theese new jobs, and then proceed to spent most of the money they just assumed into existence for the next ten years in the next 4 and explain that they'll finance this by not using as much money "next year"[psychic prediction]

Bitter? Who me?

For the information of non-Danes the 2010 plan was a plan by the privious administration for halving the public debt by 2010. This plan required that 60.000 more jobs be created and that the growth in public spending should be limited. The current governement took over this plan, but turned the aim of creating 60.000 more jobs into the simple assumption that theese jobs would magically turn up, and financed tax cuts, many of which were aimed at the exact areas where economist said that they'd do least good, by saying that they'd let the governement spending increase even less in the future. the Minister of interior also brushed aside the criticism of the governements economic policy from ten of the countries leading economists with the words "economics is an inexact science".

 

[CFLarsen]

The left only gained three seats if you consider the Social Liberal Party leftwing which is debatable. Also the conservatives gained three seats, and the Danish Peoples Party (unfortunatly) gained two so it's hardly a crushing defeat for the governement.

No. But it is interesting that the government and its supporting party lost mandates, in all.

 

[Kerberos]

No. But it is interesting that the government and its supporting party lost mandates, in all.

Actually they didn't, the Christian Democratic Party isn't technically a support party, they would have supported Fogh as prime minister in a centerright governement, they didn't support him in his current clean right governement. Even ignoring this however, the loss was only three mandates and was caused by the failure of the Christian democratic party, to get the 2% required for representation rather than any significant % loss for the governement and it's support parties. I simply can't see, how a very minor loss of mandates coubled with a small increase in % of the vote, compared to a spectacuarly good result last election, is particuarly interesting.

 

[Cleopatra]

The elections were yesterday. The important for today is that Greece plays football with Denmark (in a couple of hours) and we have to win.

 

[Kerberos]

The elections were yesterday. The important for today is that Greece plays football with Denmark (in a couple of hours) and we have to win.

call me a politics need, but I'd rather have won the election than win in football.

 

[mbp]

Ah, yes, four more years with most important legislation passed with the help of the Danish Peoples Party

I would certainly have preferred the DPP not to have any influence.

But your alternative government would have relied on the former communists (who are still opposed to private property rights) in much the same way. And they are a much more extremist party which I'm not even convinced is totally committed to democracy.

So I don't really think you can complain about that bit

 

[Kerberos]

I would certainly have preferred the DPP not to have any influence.

But your alternative government would have relied on the former communists (who are still opposed to private property rights) in much the same way. And they are a much more extremist party which I'm not even convinced is totally committed to democracy.

My prefered governement would actually have been a Social Liberal- Conservative one, but that obviously wasn't in the cards. As for the actual alternative you're right that they would have depended on the commies, but I don't think the situation is quite comparable. First of all the Unity List is much smaller than DPP, and thus could expect less influence, and secondly it isn't given that all the major legislation would be passed using their votes. The current administration with it's "contract politics" has very limited ability to compromise, and will thus be forced pass most of it's major legislation with DDP, just as they did this period. The previous governement passed much more of the major with the opposition, than the current governement has.

So I don't really think you can complain about that bit

Watch me.

 

[Mike B.]

Could somone here explain what they mean when they say the Liberal Party has turned its back on "liberalism?"

Have they abandoned free-market reforms?

 

[Mike B.]

No. But it is interesting that the government and its supporting party lost mandates, in all.

I believe the Tory Party picked up a handful of seats in the last UK general election.

That still means they lost though...

What matters is who gets to form the government, right?

And the incumbents do, right?

Just wondering...

 

[kimiko]

...but turned the aim of creating 60.000 more jobs into the simple assumption that theese jobs would magically turn up, and financed tax cuts, many of which were aimed at the exact areas where economist said that they'd do least good

Sounds familiar.

 

[mbp]

Originally posted by Kerberos
As for the actual alternative you're right that they would have depended on the commies, but I don't think the situation is quite comparable. First of all the Unity List is much smaller than DPP, and thus could expect less influence,

I think it's very much comparable. The "extreme" party has the power to bring down the government. Whether they can do so by witholding one or ten crucial votes makes little difference.

and secondly it isn't given that all the major legislation would be passed using their votes. The current administration with it's "contract politics" has very limited ability to compromise, and will thus be forced pass most of it's major legislation with DDP, just as they did this period. The previous governement passed much more of the major with the opposition, than the current governement has.

Most of the legislation both under this and previous governments has been passed on a broad basis. Exactly what proportion will depend on how much both sides want to compromise. Not just the government.

And I do seem to remember the previous government passing very important legislation including a major tax reform with a majority of a single vote which included the commies and our friends from the North Atlantic.
So while I can well understand their frustration - because I myself felt it back then - I don't feel they're entitled to complain much.

 

[mbp]

What matters is who gets to form the government, right?

And the incumbents do, right?

Just wondering...

Exactly. There's no question which "side" won.

The individual parties on each side had different levels of success, but I don't think many will argue that loosing a few seat while remaining in power is worse than the opposite.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by Kerberos I don't really think you can call Venstre a liberal party anymore, under Uffe-Elleman (that previous leader of Venstre) they were, but not under Fogh (the current leader and prime minister), he sold out on his liberalism, so much that IMO there's nothing left.

I agree that they've become substantially less liberal under Fogh (who'd have thought, given his history?). I used to be a fan of Fogh, but no longer am. As far as having sold out completely, I obviously disagree. I like the Tax-stop very much. I'd like to see an actual Tax-decrease vow, but I guess it isn't politically viable at the moment.

I don't see venstre as all that pro-EU, certainly they aren't opponents of the EU, but Fogh doesn't seem estatic either. He doesn't seem to be in a hurry to remove the opt -outs for example (DK has opted out of 4 areas of the European Union namely the Euro, the military branch, the judicial and internal affairs branch and the union citizenship) and he even favours retaining the judicial opt-out in a modicfied form. Also I don't think the conservatives are less pro-EU than Venstre, they might have been so histotically, or perhaps it's just that Venstre has become less pro-EU since Fogh became leader of the party.

Yes, I agree that Venstre has become decidedly less Liberal since Fogh.

I incidentially voted for det radikal venstre (the social liberal party) which is very pro-EU, favours welfare and tax-reforms, and opposes most of the restrictions on living in Denmark with foreign spouses.

Yes they oppose restrictions on immigration, something I'm for. They are also against the military. I could never vote for them.

 

[DanishDynamite]

I would say that they are no longer a socialist party in the sense that they no longer hold as a principle "the common ownership of the means of production". (This was removed from the party constitution a few years ago.)

Ahh. Well, I never claimed to be an up-to-date expert on British politics.

Are they still a "socialist" party rather depend on what you think a socialist party should stand for. Labour support totally the principle of the NHS (free at the point of delivery) but no longer believe it has to run directly by the state, they support the principle of free education but only to secondary level, they believe in welfare system, but only to those who can’t work and so on. They support private industry providing (via tax payer’s money) what were traditionally “public services”.

It seems they've moved right, just like the Social Democrats of Denmark. I like the trend.

By way of stated principles and stated policies I can no longer distinguish between the three major UK political parties, Labour, The Liberals, Conservatives!

Wow! Its getting that way here as well. Everyone is adopting policies nearer the center than they used to have. I wonder why that is? (In fact I don't).

 

[DanishDynamite]

Ah, yes, four more years with most important legislation passed with the help of the Danish Peoples Party and an economic policy firmly grounded in consistenly doing exactly the opposite of what every economist in the country recomends and the firm insistence that 60.000 jobs are going to fall out of the sky.

Something wrong with using support from the Danish People's Party?

Oh, and have a look at the economy. It's going fabulously well.

[psychic prediction] The governement is going to scrab the 2010 plan invent a 2015 plan which is going to assume even more fictional jobs then point out how much money we have with all theese new jobs, and then proceed to spent most of the money they just assumed into existence for the next ten years in the next 4 and explain that they'll finance this by not using as much money "next year"[psychic prediction]

Bitter? Who me?

Bitter is probably a good word.

BTW, remember how an extra 23 billion Kroner in surplus on the State finances was suddenly found? Loved that. I like results, not pretty words.

For the information of non-Danes the 2010 plan was a plan by the privious administration for halving the public debt by 2010. This plan required that 60.000 more jobs be created and that the growth in public spending should be limited. The current governement took over this plan, but turned the aim of creating 60.000 more jobs into the simple assumption that theese jobs would magically turn up, and financed tax cuts, many of which were aimed at the exact areas where economist said that they'd do least good, by saying that they'd let the governement spending increase even less in the future. the Minister of interior also brushed aside the criticism of the governements economic policy from ten of the countries leading economists with the words "economics is an inexact science".

Wait and learn.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Could somone here explain what they mean when they say the Liberal Party has turned its back on "liberalism?"

Have they abandoned free-market reforms?

The heard of Venstre (the Danish Liberal Party) stated in an interview that he found Liberalism to be an oldfashioned concept. Pretty shocking for not only the head of the Liberal Party but also for a man who some years before had published a book called "The Minimalist State", where he gave free reign to the concept of reducing the government as much as possible.

His party has also increasingly adopted "welfare state" ideas as their own. It's very distressing actually.

 

[plindboe]

Gutter, findes der nogle gode danske politiske debat-fora? Jeg har aldrig prøvet sådan et før, men vil mægtigt gerne finde et godt et.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Gutter, findes der nogle gode danske politiske debat-fora? Jeg har aldrig prøvet sådan et før, men vil mægtigt gerne finde et godt et.

Jeg ved det faktisk ikke. Men hvis du finder et godt sted så lad mig det venligst vide!

 

[kimiko]

Gutter, findes der nogle gode danske politiske debat-fora? Jeg har aldrig prøvet sådan et før, men vil mægtigt gerne finde et godt et.

Jeg ved det faktisk ikke. Men hvis du finder et godt sted så lad mig det venligst vide!

That's not fair!

But the online translator did a decent job: Gutter , reside there some good danish political debate fora? I've never proven such a ante , however vil enormous gladly find a good a.
I known that actuals no. However of which you finder a bargain spot so lazy me that please know!