Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

[George 152]

No wonder all those mad muslim suicide bombers got through the checkpoints to murder innocents.
Charge the purveyors of those useless devices with murder somewhere where they have the death penalty

 

[dlorde]

$250 each? Seems like they're being ripped off, as well as their customers.

I expect they were paid a little extra to keep quiet about this secret device being made for security reasons. When you're making $39,750 profit each on a scam, it pays to keep your suppliers comfortable.

Doesn't explain why the company's website only claims to have sold a few, but that could be down to incompetence; a lot of companies don't know how to keep their websites up-to-date.

They've apparently been sold to just about every corrupt regime out there, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Mexico, Thailand, etc. Perhaps the web site trainee just can't keep up

 

[LTC8K6]

Iraq will continue to use them...

BAGHDAD (AP) - An Iraqi security official on Monday defended a bomb-detecting device that Britain banned for export to Iraq because of questions about whether it works, saying it would be a "big mistake" to withdraw it from checkpoints.

The ADE651, made by the British company ATSC, is used at security points across Iraq, including outside the protected Green Zone that includes the Iraqi parliament and the U.S. and British embassies. Britain halted the export of the machine to Iraq and Afghanistan after a BBC report challenged its effectiveness.

But Col. Hato al-Hashemi, a senior explosives expert at the Interior Ministry, said the estimated 2,000 devices used by Iraqi security forces would not be taken out of service.

"We have great confidence in this device," al-Hashemi said. "They have proven their effectiveness in discovering and seizing many car bombs and cars that were loaded with explosives and weapons."

...

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?p...rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=

 

[Dubious Dick]

Some clarifications

From that thread, worth repeating here, I think:

Hopefully clear to all that I started this thread and the one on UK Skeptics solely due to Randi challenging the ADE 651.

Since then I and others have kept up a steady campaign against McCormick and others. Much of it behind the scenes disrupting McCormick and his agents e.g. Prosec in Lebanon, and Gary Bolton at Global Technical with the GT200.

We tried to get media interest here in the UK for a long time, but no one picked up on this until Rod Norland did his NYT piece back in Nov last, from where the snowball rolled on.

It is fantastic that the story has finally broken, and indeed the credit does need to be very largely with Randi and the JREF for keeping on this all the way back to the Quadro Tracker. Hopefully our campaign did help to keep the story rumbling until it was finally discovered.

Anyway. Please do join in with the efforts to get McCormick brough swiftly and fully to justice, along with the GT 200 guys etc. Anyone in Romania? You may be interested to know that last reports suggest that McCormick has fled there and is consorting with his fellow directors at Miratelecom, an apparently respectable telecomms company, but tarred with having taken on agancy for the ADE 651. If you are in Romania, or know anyone there perhaps the story can be broken there as well. Let's hope so.

Go get 'em folks.

 

[zooterkin]

Hopefully clear to all that I started this thread and the one on UK Skeptics solely due to Randi challenging the ADE 651.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just pointing out that Newsnight were acknowledging Randi's involvement, and not claiming this as all their own work.

 

[Dubious Dick]

No problemo Zooterkin

Wasn't suggesting you were suggesting anything. Just that a bit of a hoo ha has developed over whether others apart from Randi (me included) should have been credited.

Fact is don't care about credit for me even if I did deserve some. We know that our campaign has helped to keep the issue rumbling along, and that we have caused disruption and grief to McCormick, Bolton and others involved, which has been pleasing in itself.

 

[Techowiz]

James Randi speaks on youtube regarding the arrest of McCormick and his scam device the ADE651, make sure everyone watches to boost the ratings for Google, check the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTmqfGJhTI

regards

 

[AvalonXQ]

Iraq will continue to use them...

This is infuriating. They're putting people's lives at risk relying on something that simply doesn't work.

 

[Techowiz]

This is infuriating. They're putting people's lives at risk relying on something that simply doesn't work.

They have dug themselves into a big whole with their ridiculous statements of support, that they will loose tto much face if they now admit they have been scammed/bribed. The also risk being hanged of course and if it is a choice between the generals lives and that of the Iraqi population, well as we all know they are still using the scam device ADE651.
regards

 

[Brown]

Definitely should be charged with negligent homicide, several hundred counts.

Life in an Iraqi prison would make me smile. Making sure his entire estate gets sold off and put into bomb-sniffing dogs and backscatter units would make me even happier.

I suspect that one reason these, er, "devices" became so popular is that dogs are very unpopular in that part of the world. Canines are unclean, you know.

It would not surprise me one bit of Christopher Hitchens turns this into a column. A religion-based objection to dogs leads to embracing a bogus technology that provides nothing but a lame bluff to the bad guys and a false sense of security to the good guys. Dogs have a proven track record for sniffing out bad stuff, but ancient texts say that the Creator of the Universe frowns upon dogs, and so dogs are not employed.

Hitchens has already written how religious objections to swine has had unintended consequences for public health in Egypt. This story may be another in that vein.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

So are dogs the only alternative to "devices"?.
How does the rest of the world detect bombs?

-

 

[zooterkin]

When I was explaining this issue to a friend, he did suggest that charging up with static electricity and then pointing a metal wand at a suspect device might actually detect some explosives...

 

[One Skunk Todd]

Well thank goodness Iraqi security forces are using these things, otherwise stuff like this might happen:

Car bomb kills 18, injures dozens in Baghdad

 

[Brown]

So are dogs the only alternative to "devices"?.
How does the rest of the world detect bombs?

As I understand, dogs are not the only means for detection of explosives. They are, however, relatively inexpensive and they have a pretty good track record.

They are also hard to bribe, blackmail or talk out of an accusation with a really good story.

There are mechanisms on the market that detect explosives too, mechanisms that actually WORK. (Whether they work as well as a dog's nose, however, is a matter for debate.) But these mechanisms are generally much more expensive than the phony-baloney dowsing rods that this joker sold to the guards. My bet is that expense was one of the reasons why the phony-baloney devices were such a big sell... for the cost of one actual working device, you could get ten (or more) phony-baloney devices. What a bargain. BOOM!

Some detection mechanisms that work are also inconvenient. The phony-baloney devices, however, have convenience going for them. Nobody has to get out of a car, or get sprayed with puffs of air, or pass through a special opening, or be subjected to confined claustrophobic spaces. What convenience. BOOM!

 

[Techowiz]

Oh no another bloody one,

David Vollmar formerly of Sniffex Plus, has now brought out another scam device now calling it the HEDD1.
Check out the link below:

http://www.unival-group.com/hedd1.htm

The smell of easy money must be overpowering.
A verry happy Christmas to all and a wonderful new year, and let us see how difficult we can make life for the scammers next year.
regards

The scammers that make the ridiculous HEDD1 have issued a statement distancing themselves from the exposure of the ADE651. It is so funny I can't stop laughing with such classic statements as, "THE RESULT HAS BEEN DISASTROUS AND THEY HAVE CREATED A MASSIVE SCAM, WHICH IS DESPICABLE"
It is good to see they don't let hypocrisy get in the way of their scam!!!
Check the link for a good laugh.

http://www.unival-group.com/images/statement_HEDD1®_ADE651.pdf

regards

 

[Techowiz]

Well thank goodness Iraqi security forces are using these things, otherwise stuff like this might happen:

Car bomb kills 18, injures dozens in Baghdad

How much evidence do the Iraqis need before they realise, as the bombers have, that the ADE651 does not work?

regards

 

[Brown]

The CNN website now had a video story about the, er, "device" in question, and mentions that bombers have successfully passed a "multitude" of checkpoints. More than 300 people have been killed as a result.

 

[Techowiz]

The CNN website now had a video story about the, er, "device" in question, and mentions that bombers have successfully passed a "multitude" of checkpoints. More than 300 people have been killed as a result.

Link please Brown.
regards

 

[Brown]

Link please Brown.
regards

I don't know how long CNN will continue to have the video, but as of this writing, it is still available. Go to CNN.com, use the search feature to find videos using the search word "detector." You should get a link to a video entitled "Fake bomb detectors."

 

[esquel]

I don't know if this is a rehash of earlier articles, but one can hope it's new and shows some progress:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35239295/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa//

<snip>Handheld wand criticized
But Iraq also had faced charges of relying on flawed devices — a wand-like, handheld mechanism known as ADE-651. Last month, British authorities banned its export to Iraq and Afghanistan after a BBC report raised serious questions about its ability to detect explosives.

Iraqi officials initially defended the hand-held machine, but now appear to be backing down and looking for alternatives.

American commanders have been strongly urging Iraqi forces to abandon the ADE-651, repeatedly telling security officials they did not work following major bombings against government sites in August, October and December, according to a high-ranking U.S. military officer with knowledge of the discussions. </snip>

Ya think?!?!?