Easter Island story

[Correa Neto]

I agree, of course. So.. 1) or 2) or some mix do you think?

Does anyone know if the dating methods in 2) were undertook in 1) at all?

You are aware that the "ecocide" hypothesis and its variants are related to the decline in the population before the "discovery" of the island, while the introdution of diseases is related to a population decrese that happened after the first contact with Europeans?

 

[CFLarsen]

You are aware that the "ecocide" hypothesis and its variants are related to the decline in the population before the "discovery" of the island, while the introdution of diseases is related to a population decrese that happened after the first contact with Europeans?

He is now.

Next, evasive action. "Or" will be interpreted as "not necessarily exclusive".

 

[Soapy Sam]

No, you should never have an opinion at all, about anything, because if you're truly open-minded you have to admit you might be wrong....

Rolfe.

My default opinion is that I'm wrong. I'm generally right.

 

[Zep]

Pirates on the starboard bow, aaaaargh!

 

[jj]

Just maybe they lived during the jurasic age and as the oxygen level at that time was thinner than it is now, and everything grew large, just maybe the people were large too giants in fact and Easter Island was part of a mainland and the people just walked away during a great catasrophy like massive vocanic eruptions, killing many and darkening the world, perhaps.

What we see is what is left of a much larger picture

Yeah, it will be interesting to see with the new findings how they piece things together.

Just keeping in context what the "new findings" were, and the obviously sarcastic fashion in which they were offered.

I think if there's any doubt that T'ai Chi is a deliberate troll, this really clears the tracks.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

OMG! Science changes its conclusions when new evidence comes to light.

Bad science! Bad! Why can't you bemore like your brother, religion, and never change no matter what? No cookie for you.

Nominated, just because it's funny.

 

[Kopji]

I don't see how that follows...

Who?

Just idle musing on my part.
In south pacific island cultures where food was a scarce resource, who would fare better?

1: A peaceful fishing and agriculture society that centered around building statues...
or
2: A culture driven by waging war and finding new food sources?

I could certainly see #1 being a successful strategy... except for the part about the huge statues visible from anyone passing by. A more successful survival strategy would seem to be staying hidden.

"Pirates" could encompass every thing from slavers to other islanders out for lunch, but probably not. The island is very isolated.
http://www.salon.com/12nov1995/humor/cruickshank.html

My bet would be on an event like a drought or tsunami.

 

[UrsulaV]

Just idle musing on my part.
In south pacific island cultures where food was a scarce resource, who would fare better?

Bearing in mind that the last time I studied up on this seriously, the Easter Islanders were probably still erecting giant heads, but was food all that scare a resource on most South Pacific islands?

Some of them, sure, I'll give you--it's hard to find lunch on a wee little coral atoll. And it's entirely possible that I'm just having vague Gauguin visuals that bear no resemblance to reality. But wasn't there a pretty solid food base on a lot of the islands? You've got fishing, abundant plant life in the roots 'n fruits genre, birds, the occasional stray pig...

Likely it would vary from island to island, but as food resources go, my general impression is that the South Pacific wasn't nearly as close to the starvation line as a lot of other cultures.

Mind you, that could be part of the problem--if you spend most of your waking hours stalking seals or searching for water, you're probably not planning how to set up your next stone head.

 

[Roboramma]

Some of them, sure, I'll give you--it's hard to find lunch on a wee little coral atoll. And it's entirely possible that I'm just having vague Gauguin visuals that bear no resemblance to reality. But wasn't there a pretty solid food base on a lot of the islands?

Well, until you've killed off all the native land-birds, and cut down all the trees big enough for making a decent ocean-going canoe to fish from. Until then it's great.

 

[Correa Neto]

What Roboramma said. Natural resources such as fish, game, plants and water are renewable to a certain point. Overfish, overhunt, overlog and mismanage your water sources and you'll be in trouble.

 

[CFLarsen]

It's not the lack food that's the problem in the atolls. It's the lack of water.

 

[LW]

I could certainly see #1 being a successful strategy... except for the part about the huge statues visible from anyone passing by. A more successful survival strategy would seem to be staying hidden.

Well, this part of your argument is rather weak for a couple of reasons:

• Smoke from cooking fires (or light at night) can be seen much further from sea than the stone heads; and
• Any passing ship or boat will land on the island anyway. Look at the map of Southern Pacific. The nearest inhabited island is about 1600 km away. The nearest uninhabited island is 415 km away. Any preindustrial seafarer coming from any direction will land there to replenish water and possibly food supplies.

 

[CFLarsen]

Any passing ship or boat will land on the island anyway. Look at the map of Southern Pacific. The nearest inhabited island is about 1600 km away. The nearest uninhabited island is 415 km away. Any preindustrial seafarer coming from any direction will land there to replenish water and possibly food supplies.

If he knew it was there, yes.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Of course he knew it was there. It was on the best Chinese charts. Besides you could see those statues from miles away!

Is it just me, or does this whole thread have a rather surreal feel to it?

 

[Kopji]

Well, this part of your argument is rather weak for a couple of reasons:

• Smoke from cooking fires (or light at night) can be seen much further from sea than the stone heads; and
• Any passing ship or boat will land on the island anyway. Look at the map of Southern Pacific. The nearest inhabited island is about 1600 km away. The nearest uninhabited island is 415 km away. Any preindustrial seafarer coming from any direction will land there to replenish water and possibly food supplies.

Yeah both good points. The statues were built over generations, makes me agree that they were probably irrelevant to whatever happened.

'Pirates' could be effective if key members of the precisely organized society were captured. Otherwise the advantage might even go the other way, with captured or wrecked ships becoming prey to the islanders.

I lean toward 'Beady's Law' where the truth is probably whatever is most boring.

 

[Kopji]

Bearing in mind that the last time I studied up on this seriously, the Easter Islanders were probably still erecting giant heads, but was food all that scare a resource on most South Pacific islands?

Some of them, sure, I'll give you--it's hard to find lunch on a wee little coral atoll. And it's entirely possible that I'm just having vague Gauguin visuals that bear no resemblance to reality. But wasn't there a pretty solid food base on a lot of the islands? You've got fishing, abundant plant life in the roots 'n fruits genre, birds, the occasional stray pig...

Likely it would vary from island to island, but as food resources go, my general impression is that the South Pacific wasn't nearly as close to the starvation line as a lot of other cultures.

Mind you, that could be part of the problem--if you spend most of your waking hours stalking seals or searching for water, you're probably not planning how to set up your next stone head.

Also a good point.
I'll check on Pigs. I think they are an invasive species that would be introduced much later.

I've heard that islander's diets tended to be extremely low fat and that cannibalism may have served to supplement a dietary need. (Sorry about the pun).

 

[Kopji]

Of course he knew it was there. It was on the best Chinese charts. Besides you could see those statues from miles away!

Is it just me, or does this whole thread have a rather surreal feel to it?

Yeah.
But I have a weakness for threads about islands.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I have a theory

All thru Polynesia, micronesia, etc..., there were those guys, they HAD to keep going

No matter how nice the place they found, they STILL had to keep going

When they ended up in Hawai'i, even most of them said, " Ho kuz, we stay in da middle of NOWHEAH! No uddah lands fo miles and miles, tired already, I like go kaukau, den, SLEEP"

Still yet, there were a few who wanted to keep going. Here they were, on the only tiny dots of land in a whole CHUNK of area, and they still had the bug to go. So they said " Key den, mahus, you stay heah wit da wahines and style hair, we goin bag...LAYTAHS!!!!"

So on they went, jack diddly....on and on and on, and finally Rapa Nui. A teeny dot. If they thought the last islands they saw were tiny, well this one took the cake.

But they stayed. They knew this was the end point, and that the gods would take them from here, the final step, and set them asail upon the stars. So they waited

and waited

and waited

Finally one said, " Hey, we go stay come LONG TIME already! Thought bumbye god goin lift us up, but he nevah, we need to tell him were here, how we goin do that?"

"petroglyphs!"

"key den"

So they made petroglyphs. Made some on a rock. Made some on a cave
Made some on a tree. More more more. Everything was covered with petroglyphs

So they waited, and waited

and waited

"Ho kuz, we wen make CHOKE petroglyphs. how come they no come down? How come none of da gods like go stay come?"

"maybe they cant see from there"

" Den we goin make some BAMBOOCHA ones!!!"

SO they built gigantic statues, eyes up, to say LOOK AT ME!!! WERE WAITING!!!!

Thats my theory anyhow.

 

[CFLarsen]

Of course he knew it was there. It was on the best Chinese charts. Besides you could see those statues from miles away!

Is it just me, or does this whole thread have a rather surreal feel to it?

So far, T'ai Chi has not explained his intent. Nor, although it's a superfluous addition, what he thinks.

 

[rehn]

Of course he knew it was there. It was on the best Chinese charts. Besides you could see those statues from miles away!

Is it just me, or does this whole thread have a rather surreal feel to it?

Where can I have a look at thees Chinese charts ??

I have not been able to find any indication of visits to Easter Island by
anybody but Polynesians before the Europeans arrived.