Dylan Avery Gets Schooled By The BBC (Video)

[Jonnyclueless]

Because its related to The Jerusalem Post news item they cited. They said the argument was that 4000 Jews were warned before 911. They rightly said this wasnt nonsence, but didnt tell you was that Ha'aratz and The Washington Post reported that Israeli Intelligence was send a report by Odigo of some instant message warning regarding 911 who then reported it to the FBI. There was an interesting grain of bizzare truth to the tale they didnt report. Yet if someone was to watch Conspiracy Files they would assume, if I mentioned about the instant message warnings, that I was one of those people that thinks 4000 Jews were warned and Im just as nutty as they are. Of course all I can be saying is that this should have been included in a documentary and all of a sudden Im an anti-semite, so dont pretend that wouldnt happen.

STOP lying. There was no message warning regarding 911. Even the people at the company have acknowledged this in the press. The reason you won't bother showing your press sources is because it would make this obvious and you would be caught in your lie. Of course people keep pointing this out to you, yet you keep making this claim about there being a 911 warning message. So if you want to settle this, present the news articles for these claims. WE have already seen them, but I think it's important that you now actually read them instead of saying what you THINK they said. It seems pretty obvious that you never actually read the articles from the press releases themselves, but from the truther sites where they add conjecture to mislead people. It's either that or you are intentionally lying.

 

[WildCat]

Still, theres something else to the story they reported in Conspiracy Files, but they chose not to actually mention that there was a grain of truth to it or how the myth of 4000 jews got started. Do you deny they dont mention any of this? They cite one news sources, but not the other two I did, I wonder why.

You didn't "cite" any such news report, do you intend on doing so soon?

 

[jproudj]

It was my understanding that the story about the Jewish employees being warned and not turning up on 9/11 came from a message on the Israeli govt website about 4000 Israelis who had not made contact after the attacks. The number was arbitrary because they didn't know who was actually in the WTC, or even in the immediate area. This story probably got merged with the Odigo company in Israel story somewhere in the conspiracy swamp. It would be a classic case study in how the conspiracy theories emerge.

Here is a link trying to explain the Odigo story, it really isn't a 'grain of truth' at all. It's much smaller than that

911myths.com/index.php/Odigo

 

[Edx]

Ah yes, the posts of yours which I addressed piece by piece. Tell us again what I said you said that you didn't. Because what REALLY happened is I accused you of a certain behavior, which you then translated into me claiming you made a literal claim.

Well lets have a look at things you've said, shall we?

When a truther is caught in a lie, you don't seem to have much problem with that

Where did you get that idea from? In my first two posts I said it looks like Dylan didnt want to admit he was wrong. Apparently this means I dont care!

1. He's using typical wooer tactic by exploiting the fact that it's impossible for any documentary to include every possible issue

Where did I do that? I never suggested they needed to include "every possible issue". In fact I didnt even imply anything of the kind.

1 . And then the standard wooer tactic of making the argument that because they didn't include all of the nonsense theories that somehow it legitamizes the ones they did show

So where did I do that? How did you get this out of my posts?

They can't include everyone and your argument that unless they include EVERYONE that YOU deem right somehow makes it unbalanced is a completely bogus argument on your part.

Well go on Jonny, show me where I ever made that argument!

Once again, it's impossible to have a documentary that brings up everything

I know its impossible to bring up everything, I never suggested anything like that, but apparently you think Im saying they should have.

To bring up the issue to the few idiots whot think part of the plot was to secretly let a handful of people die over a long period of time would have been a waste of everyone's time.

I dont even know what you're trying to claim Im saying here!

That would be YOU LYING.

Thats pretty funny coming from you.

But if you feel the need to lie to pretend you are being unfairly attacked, it's your business. Just don't expect to be taken seriously here with that kind of behavior.

Anyone can witness what you claimed Im saying, verses what Ive actually said. Anyone can witness that you've refused to back up what you said. I wonder if you'll give another ad hominem riddiculed excuse not not have to do that this time .

What would the IM thing prove? Gosh, did YOU not bring it up?

Did YOU not READ why I brought it up?

Are you now claiming that the fact it was reported makes it somehow a conspiracy?

Priceless, yet another strawman. Your question mark almost stops it being one, if I havent said over and over thats not what Im saying.

PLease, show us those reports. Show us the grain of truth to it you speak of. Show us the message. Why can't you do it? it's YOUR argument, back it up.

What do you expect me to prove?

Obviously I am a lot older than you.

Older is possible, but Im not posting pictures of laughing dogs.

You can continue as long as you want, but sooner or later you're going to start having to be honest.

 

[beachnut]

Ah now Im being called an anti-Semite as well!You guys are getting more and more laughable.

You bring up the 4000 Jews warned, which is a lie, false, stupid, etc. No wonder. If you say stupid stuff you get tagged for being an stupid and not looking up the facts first before making dumb post after dump post pushing a lie around as if it was real information. Next we will hear the terrorist are alive an you will go from a know truther to super truther.

You went wrong on the thread, first by not sticking to the OP. Next, do not defend a 9/11 truth liar like Dylan on a same point of junk. You could have ignored the bs about dropout, it mean you do not care about content, you just want to defend an idiot 9/11 truth false information merchant. At least you post count is up and you have become a full truther defending false stories and lies with no evidence. You are the definition of a truther. But there is hope for terminal stupidity, it is knowledge knowledge.

I am just a old fool, but if you had taken my advice you would not be a truther defending stupid people and false stories of woo. Next advice, do not trust newspapers or the news.

 

[WildCat]

What do you expect me to prove?

For one, that you're not simply parroting truther claims and haven't even seen the article yourself. Secondly, the date of said article would show whether or not it preceded the 4,000 Jew rumor. 3rd, maybe the text of the actual "warning" could be seen.

You have so far refused to link to the article you claim to have read...

 

[WildCat]

Still, theres something else to the story they reported in Conspiracy Files, but they chose not to actually mention that there was a grain of truth to it or how the myth of 4000 jews got started. Do you deny they dont mention any of this? They cite one news sources, but not the other two I did, I wonder why.

Apparently the Haaretz article came out in July 2004, the 4,000 Jew rumor was first reported on Lebanon's Al-Manar Television on Sept. 17, 2001.

So explain how a report published in 2004 can be the source of a rumor first started nearly 3 years prior?

 

[Edx]

You didn't "cite" any such news report, do you intend on doing so soon?

As I have said many times Haaretz is a primary news source, as is The Washington Post report that followed it up. Are you guys just ignoring me on purpose now or what? Admit it, you'll all having a joke with me, you all are just winding me up right?

What do you expect me to prove?

For one, that you're not simply parroting truther claims and haven't even seen the article yourself. Secondly, the date of said article would show whether or not it preceded the 4,000 Jew rumor. 3rd, maybe the text of the actual "warning" could be seen.

The Jerusalem posts article came out one day after the attacks, according to this page debunking the CT claim.

You have so far refused to link to the article you claim to have read...

I didnt think people were denying its existence. Haaretz and the Washington Post (the original article appears to be lost)

It was my understanding that the story about the Jewish employees being warned and not turning up on 9/11 came from a message on the Israeli govt website about 4000 Israelis who had not made contact after the attacks. The number was arbitrary because they didn't know who was actually in the WTC, or even in the immediate area. This story probably got merged with the Odigo company in Israel story somewhere in the conspiracy swamp. It would be a classic case study in how the conspiracy theories emerge.

Here is a link trying to explain the Odigo story, it really isn't a 'grain of truth' at all. It's much smaller than that

911myths.com/index.php/Odigo

You honestly cannot see the connection between 4000 Jewish workers warned on 911 and Odigo in Israel being warned of 911? If you really cant see any connection, I guess we'll have to agree to disagee wont we?

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Apparently the Haaretz article came out in July 2004, the 4,000 Jew rumor was first reported on Lebanon's Al-Manar Television on Sept. 17, 2001.

So explain how a report published in 2004 can be the source of a rumor first started nearly 3 years prior?

I got this one, Cat...

I never said that

 

[Edx]

Apparently the Haaretz article came out in July 2004, the 4,000 Jew rumor was first reported on Lebanon's Al-Manar Television on Sept. 17, 2001.

So explain how a report published in 2004 can be the source of a rumor first started nearly 3 years prior?

If it wasnt the source, its still relevant. But like I said, if you honestly cannot see any connection worth bringing up in the segment on Israeli warnings in the Conspiracy Files, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree wont we?

 

[Edx]

I got this one, Cat...

I never said that

Hey I'll admit if I misspoke or made a mistake, do you agree with Jonny that everything he says about me is true? Since he refuses to show where Im saying what he says Im saying, how about you have a shot at it?

 

[jproudj]

According to cooperativeresearch.org the haaretz daily story was on 26th Sept 2001, but their link doesn't work. i don't think you'll find it live online.

haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C

 

[Slayhamlet]

Apparently the Haaretz article came out in July 2004, the 4,000 Jew rumor was first reported on Lebanon's Al-Manar Television on Sept. 17, 2001.

So explain how a report published in 2004 can be the source of a rumor first started nearly 3 years prior?

I don't know about the Haaretz article, but the Washington Post article was printed Sept. 28, 2001.

 

[jproudj]

You honestly cannot see the connection between 4000 Jewish workers warned on 911 and Odigo in Israel being warned of 911? If you really cant see any connection, I guess we'll have to agree to disagee wont we?

No, because there was no warning to 4000 workers. There was an appeal for contact after the attack. No warning. Only the vague warning without a source (of the email) with no reference to the WTC, to people in Odigo in Israel, who had no connection to the WTC. So there really is no connection apart from the nationality.

There might be a connection between two false stories, but...they're false...

 

[Slayhamlet]

If it wasnt the source, its still relevant. But like I said, if you honestly cannot see any connection worth bringing up in the segment on Israeli warnings in the Conspiracy Files, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree wont we?

I can see two connections: it involves Jews and prior knowledge of 9/11. Fine. Now, can you explain why is it necessary to mention that two Jews half-way around the globe were thought to have been given a warning about 9/11 from an anonymous source, when one debunks the nasty and clearly anti-Semitic (as well as absurd) claim that 4000 Jewish workers at WTC were warned of the attacks beforehand, and thus escaped death?

 

[Slayhamlet]

No, because there was no warning to 4000 workers. There was an appeal for contact after the attack. No warning. Only the vague warning without a source (of the email) with no reference to the WTC, to people in Odigo in Israel, who had no connection to the WTC. So there really is no connection apart from the nationality.

There might be a connection between two false stories, but...they're false...

Not nationality, ethnic background/religious affiliation.

 

[Edx]

Its related, but also stands on its own the same way the incompetence and not acting on intelligence conspiracy they push at the end of the film can be "related". In this case its the "theory", if you can really call it a theory, that the government lied about the quality of the air and now first responders are dying of related illness'.

No, it's not related to 9/11 conspiracy theories at all, whereas the issues of government incompetence and intelligence failures are, and directly so. LIHOP is a conspiracy theory, wouldn't you agree?

Sure LIHOP is a CT, but thats one . The air quality lie claim is not just related to 911 conspiracy theories, it is a 911 conspiracy theory. If you dont know that you must not be familiar with the fact that people pushing 911 CTs also push this one.

Also, the government didn't lie about the quality of the air at the clean-up site. The EPA did give false information about the safety of the air for the public in the area around GZ, for economic/political reasons (they wanted Wall Street up and running again as soon as possible).

Im not going to debate this now. Point is its a conspiracy theory to suggest there was a conspiracy to coverup the lie about quality of the air to the emergency services. You deny it so by definition its just another in a long list of other claims people here say arent true, and are just conspiracy theory.

The story about the possible warnings on Odigo is not related to the "4000 absent Jews" conspiracy theory. Perhaps the two have coalesced among certain anti-Semitic snake-oil peddlers into a single conspiracy theory, but they weren't in origin. If you believe they are the same, you were lied to.

Several people have claimed this so I'll address all this now. How did the Haaratz story influence the 4000 jews myth and whys it important to mention? Even if it wasnt directly related lets look at this. Well, Odigo notified Israli intelligence services that they had a couple of employees that according to the CEO two workers received the messages predicting the attack would happen". He cant say specifics but he did say that much. This was then reported to the FBI. The Jerusalem Post reports a day after 911 that 4,000 Jews are missing, even if true this gets twisted into 4,000 Jews were warned and knew about the attacks so didnt go to work. The reason why its relevant is because the two stories do get mixed up! Did 4000 Jews get warnings by instant messages? Did all Odigo employees get warnings via instant messages and didnt go to work that day? Etc. So yea of course its part of the CT that the Conspiracy Files talks about so to not address the instant messages part of the CT is quite an ommission to make. It would have only made the report more accurate, but I suppose they were more interested in implying that all CTs are jew haters and insensitive.

 

[cisco]

Yes, because that's the best example of it you can find anywhere... unlike on every investigative news-type magazine show ever. So to choose to take this particular stance on this particular board about this particular show?

Well... disingenuous is a HUGE understatement.

And for the record on the outward chance I'm wrong about you, the devil's advocate/moral relativism gimmick isn't any less of a troll-baiting one than "douchey CTer."

And this about sums it up.

You're shocked because you think we're dismissing your arguments without consideration. What you don't realize is we've heard them hundreds of times from other people. You're not getting any positive attention because you're not saying anything new or original. We'd love to be wrong about you, Edx, but we know we're probably not.

 

[jproudj]

Not nationality, ethnic background/religious affiliation.

The 4000 number came from the appeal list on the Israeli Embassy site, and the employees of Odigo were in Israel, so that's why I said that.

 

[WildCat]

I don't know about the Haaretz article, but the Washington Post article was printed Sept. 28, 2001.

Heh, I see what the problem is. Haaretz doesn't have a dateline on their archived stories, it always shows the current date! Thus, the web page I saw it referenced on had the date wrong.

At any rate, the Lebanese TV channel had it on Sept. 17. Of course, it is a channel that often features news stories fed to it by Hezbollah, and Hezbollah is the likely source of the rumor.